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Post by suuuuuuuuuuuuugar on May 5, 2024 6:16:59 GMT
Not sure where to make this thread, but yeah, writing! How do you approach writing? What do you dislike about OSs writing-wise? What do you like? How do you think the creators can improve in this department?
For me, I've read several books on the topic already, and I'd say I have a pretty good grasp of what's what and how things work. I even know why object shows have survived for that long. It's in the formula. It has everything you need to make a story. You need a goal for the characters? It's the prize. You need opposition and obstacles? Well, that can be the host or other contestants, or even some outside force. Oh yeah, a realization hit me. People seem to have been adding outside villains intuitively when the host or the contestants didn't fit the bill. Because at their core, object shows are drama, and drama is conflict. There isn't a single story out there that doesn't have conflict. And without conflict, the characters would just bumble around, nothing will push them to take action and change. And that's how boring stories are made, that's why some non-competition shows failed in the past.
Though, what most object shows miss, is that they don't have the conflicting ideas planned. See, conflict in stories isn't just two sides fighting, it's two ideas fighting. Unless it's slapstick or something, it's debatable if you need some deep idea knitted in to make it good lol. Most creators don't think their object show ideas through this thoroughly. Of course, you can hook out some ideas if you try, but you can't say that the creator intended those. Though, you can make a claim that these ideas concern the creator on some deep psychological level, which is why he intuitively entangled the show with them, but that'd just be making guesses at this point, and reading people's minds is not possible. You can say that the ending of BFDI Season 1 is a conflict between the idea of friendship and the idea of getting caught up in circumstances and the never-ending lust for rewards. For the chosen main characters of that episode (Leafy and Firey), the idea of friendship triumphs all in this conflict, as it is, in the end, the greatest reward of a competition. But you can't say the HTwins thought it out in this specific way.
But wait, what do I mean by chosen main characters? Isn't every contestant technically a main character? Well, not really, the two opposing ideas are usually tied to two special characters, the protagonist and the antagonist. They duke it out, physically and metaphorically. If there are too many main characters, it's hard to tell where the story is going and what it even means. Which is why I think early BFB was so good. It knew that. It didn't focus on every team all at once. For individual episodes, it chose two teams that would be in conflict with each other, making you grab your seat in suspense and wonder just which team will win this one. Big cast shows struggle from a lack of this focus. I'll even go as far as to say that TPOT struggles from this, they try to appease fans of EVERY character, which makes the story a mess, a long slog to chug through.
Uhh, sorry if this is messy, I just woke up. So, yeah, what do you think?
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treasuredguardian
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Post by treasuredguardian on May 5, 2024 10:57:03 GMT
You can say that the ending of BFDI Season 1 is a conflict between the idea of friendship and the idea of getting caught up in circumstances and the never-ending lust for rewards. For the chosen main characters of that episode (Leafy and Firey), the idea of friendship triumphs all in this conflict, as it is, in the end, the greatest reward of a competition. But you can't say the HTwins thought it out in this specific way. You know, as someone who has been a fan since 2014 where the Leafy Hype was at an all time high... I agree it didn't feel planned.. But the finale in particular has always read to me like it was designed with Leafy/Bubble in mind but Firey won so they had to make some adjustments. It probably isn't but AT THE VERY LEAST I feel a lot of what happened there would have made much more sense given that Leafy and Bubble had been on and off while Firey and Leafy only exchanged a few remarks prior to that one episode.
I agree with a lot of these points, especially in regards to story beats not being planned out and executed well. For certain long running shows that were made when the creators were kids I'll give some slack.
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Post by punchholery on May 5, 2024 12:10:44 GMT
And without conflict, the characters would just bumble around, nothing will push them to take action and change. And that's how boring stories are made, that's why some non-competition shows failed in the past. Hmm I'm not sure what you mean by this, because I would imagine that the conflict would come from elsewhere that isn't from the competition. |
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Post by suuuuuuuuuuuuugar on May 5, 2024 15:44:52 GMT
And without conflict, the characters would just bumble around, nothing will push them to take action and change. And that's how boring stories are made, that's why some non-competition shows failed in the past. Hmm I'm not sure what you mean by this, because I would imagine that the conflict would come from elsewhere that isn't from the competition. That is what's supposed to be happen. |
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rainbowserval
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Post by rainbowserval on May 5, 2024 17:14:06 GMT
I really wish more shows would do proper worldbuilding...
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Post by suuuuuuuuuuuuugar on May 5, 2024 19:52:14 GMT
I really wish more shows would do proper worldbuilding... Yeah, me too. It's not that important, but it can make the world feel that bit more believable. |
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cam
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Post by cam on May 5, 2024 20:11:14 GMT
I really wish more shows would do proper worldbuilding... Yeah, me too. It's not that important, but it can make the world feel that bit more believable. hi i did world building, and sadly most of it isn't even mentioned bc it was made after my big show was cancelled |
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viscera zombie
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Post by viscera zombie on May 6, 2024 23:31:31 GMT
I really wish more shows would do proper worldbuilding... omg this i am the #1 hater of "takes place in a green field with nothing in it" please please please just show us what else is on the field. i hunger for osc creators to show us at least a few other things in the world besides the green field. |
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rainbowserval
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Post by rainbowserval on May 6, 2024 23:56:45 GMT
I really wish more shows would do proper worldbuilding... this is the literal reason for tbc being worldbuilding focused. you can do so much with making sense of object show logic!! Please!! |
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Post by Pony on May 9, 2024 3:15:36 GMT
FINALLY Able to Respond to This Thread! I Completely Agree That the OSC Lacks a Lot of Standard Writing Stuff (As Others Mentioned, We Barely Have the Concept of a Setting). Theres Probably a Whole Host of Reasons This is the Case But I Always Thought It Was in Part Because of How Little Outside Inspiration the OSC Takes In... When All You Consume is Other Object Shows and Popular Kids Cartoons I Feel Like You Really Hold Yourself Back When It Comes to Exploring How to Execute Topics. I Get Why This is the Case With the Younger Creators But It Does Kind of Bug Me When Older Show Runners Also Seem Pretty Stuck in the Hole... Cmon Guys We are Artists Here Can We Vary Up Our Inspirations? I Think One Being Inspired By Breaking Bad and Also Bothering to Do Stuff Like Have a Plot... and Themes... is Evidence.
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Post by CD on May 9, 2024 12:53:56 GMT
FINALLY Able to Respond to This Thread! I Completely Agree That the OSC Lacks a Lot of Standard Writing Stuff (As Others Mentioned, We Barely Have the Concept of a Setting). Theres Probably a Whole Host of Reasons This is the Case But I Always Thought It Was in Part Because of How Little Outside Inspiration the OSC Takes In... When All You Consume is Other Object Shows and Popular Kids Cartoons I Feel Like You Really Hold Yourself Back When It Comes to Exploring How to Execute Topics. I Get Why This is the Case With the Younger Creators But It Does Kind of Bug Me When Older Show Runners Also Seem Pretty Stuck in the Hole... Cmon Guys We are Artists Here Can We Vary Up Our Inspirations? I Think One Being Inspired By Breaking Bad and Also Bothering to Do Stuff Like Have a Plot... and Themes... is Evidence. Huge agree with the inter-community inspirations. As much as It is a strong suit to find so much inspiration inside of your own community & helps strenghten it, It's also it's biggest set back. It's just hard to imagine considering almost any other piece of media I can think of has all kinds of inspirations that encompass different genres or even mediums. My favorite games and cartoons are inspired by music artists & their songs/albums (for example Spongebob was inspired by Ween's "The Mollusk", Mother/Earthbound is inspired by Peanuts and Americana/American culture in general, its name is based on the song Mother by John Lennon and so on and so forth). I'm getting off tangent. I guess part of it is that people see Object Shows as its own genre which means It needs to follow the same formula for artstyle, writing, themes - and It's not exactly welcoming to artists who break the mold too much. It sucks! There's such a rich world that can be explored through the eyes of an Anthrophomorphic Object. Matter of fact, where are the shows that focus more on the fact that they are objects? That's something I'm missing too. Oh and on the "kids show" aspect, I feel like people use "It's just a kids show" to excuse uninteresting writing or avoidance of conflicts. As If kids can't handle the slightest fuss. (Also in my opinion Object Shows are moreso "kid-friendly" than "for kids" specifically (or at least it used to be) but If I talk about that now this reply will be too long). |
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Post by CD on May 9, 2024 12:54:29 GMT
omg this i am the #1 hater of "takes place in a green field with nothing in it" please please please just show us what else is on the field. i hunger for osc creators to show us at least a few other things in the world besides the green field. If TPOT doesn't show us more of that damn hotel....... |
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Post by tangerines on May 9, 2024 14:59:44 GMT
Because at their core, object shows are drama, and drama is conflict. There isn't a single story out there that doesn't have conflict. And without conflict, the characters would just bumble around, nothing will push them to take action and change. And that's how boring stories are made, that's why some non-competition shows failed in the past. tbh i kind of disagree with this? this is something ive thought about before bc i feel like its something that is like. distinctly lacking from the transition from the original reference point (total drama, which literally has drama in the name) to like. season one of bfdi. bfdi does have some drama-focused moments, but i feel like id argue that at its CORE, its a comedy! the best parts of the Original battle for dream island are the silly joke moments. that isnt to say other object shows cant lean more into the (format-original) drama angle, i love a show like ii which leans heavily into drama in its second half. and that isnt to say a comedy-focused show like bfdi cant have really good dramatic moments too... but imo if i had to sacrifice one element or the other, i think the comedy side of things is more essential to SPECIFICALLY bfdi and how it functions. (this is why bfdia 2b has been such an amazing return to form for me) |
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drizzy
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Post by drizzy on May 11, 2024 6:49:43 GMT
When I wrote Take Two Sides's first episode I initially did it in an incredibly disjointed manner where I just thought up scenes that were funny and bridged the gaps. I attempted this on the second episode, but it turns out that method of writing doesn't really work very well when things from the previous episode have already been established, which is why development is taking rather slow. I'll hire some writers when the second episode eventually goes out...
Take Two Sides is planned to have a lot of worldbuilding and a spat of drama in it, but primarily I set up the show to be a comedy show so if there is any serious moments, it's probably bound to be written in a more off-kilter and very ridiculous way. The worldbuilding isn't safe from the comedy too. There will likely be moments where I extensively infodump about a random animal species that shows up on screen for a few seconds and never again in the credits, and as I promised, the show will have the "realistic, but disturbing implications about this object show's world."
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Post by suuuuuuuuuuuuugar on May 11, 2024 7:49:55 GMT
tbh i kind of disagree with this? this is something ive thought about before bc i feel like its something that is like. distinctly lacking from the transition from the original reference point (total drama, which literally has drama in the name) to like. season one of bfdi. bfdi does have some drama-focused moments, but i feel like id argue that at its CORE, its a comedy! the best parts of the Original battle for dream island are the silly joke moments. that isnt to say other object shows cant lean more into the (format-original) drama angle, i love a show like ii which leans heavily into drama in its second half. and that isnt to say a comedy-focused show like bfdi cant have really good dramatic moments too... but imo if i had to sacrifice one element or the other, i think the comedy side of things is more essential to SPECIFICALLY bfdi and how it functions. (this is why bfdia 2b has been such an amazing return to form for me) I meant drama in a broader sense. It encapsulates EVERY conflict. S1 of BFDI may not have emotionally heavy drama, but the characters are still in conflict with each other and the opposing teams. Snowball bullying Golf Ball is conflict. Leafy trying to convince Woody to enjoy life is conflict, even if it may not have elaborated itself further like the Snowball-Golf Ball situation, it's still a conflict. All of these comedic moments wouldn't be happening if there was no opposition between characters. It's the force of life in stories, something must push something else for it to take action or to change or to show a reaction. |
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