viscera zombie
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its all about the he-said, she-said bullshit >_>...
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Post by viscera zombie on Jun 5, 2024 22:50:52 GMT
the title says it all. please rant about how the OSC treats your faves. or even your not faves. just rant to me about how the OSC frequently misrepresents characters' personality, motivations, etc. cuz i love me some good personal interpretation but sometimes i wonder if people were even paying attention. my "favorite" is when a character is slightly quirky or optimistic and the entire fandom basically turns them into a clone of Pinkie Pie from MLP. my mind goes to Lightbulb from II but honestly theres probably way more.
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treasuredguardian
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Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
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Post by treasuredguardian on Jun 6, 2024 1:22:35 GMT
It really REALLY annoys me whether people depict a character only as shipping fodder(or an addon) to another character, even if they have personality and lives outside of that character. It also really annoys me whether a character has different aspects to their personality, fans make only 1 aspect their whole character in the most boring way possible. I think I already touched on how I don't like Treasure Chest's portrayal in the PPT2 fanbase so I'll talk about Post-It Note since he applies to both.
Post-It Note, as a returning player has a history spanning 2 seasons. Yet, fans only relegate him to a character who he's interacted so little with. Granted, Journal is an important part in Post-It Note's story, but he never solely revolved around the guy. The second season fleshed out Post-It Note so he won't be a one-note Insufferable Genius type, yet I feel most people only depict him with a watered-down version of the kinder aspect of him. The show makes it very clear that Post-It Note tends to treat people differently based on how they treat him and his experiences with them. He doesn't hesitate to chew out any little mistake or offenses made by people who are known to be self-centered douchebags. These being Gold Ingot(early on) and the Brackets, as he knows full well that they relish in bringing cruelty to others. He does show a much more lenient and understanding side to those that are kind to him and lends them help. Even then, he is still very blunt and won't hesitate to lecture them on what they did wrong. There are times where he gives up trying to help if someone messed up constantly and proves to not be worth his time. And because his team messes up a lot, his tolerance begins to wear down thin over time. Only to be made worse when a certain event gives him another thing to worry about. He gave up on Cup and Pan because while they are nice, they constantly get into trouble more than it's worth. Even when faced with constant failure, he always strives to do his best and help out whenever he can.
The idea of Post-It Note being the one to "fix Journal" falls apart when you watch the actual show. Post-It Note tried to help and talk things out, but Journal pushed him away and opted to ignore, or run away from his problems. He's in a bad place, but the show makes it very clear that in order to get better, Journal is going to have to reflect on his actions and accept that he needs help. It also betrays the fact that Post-It Note has done a lot outside of that and is more than just "a big nerd like Journal". It's a shame because I think Post-It Note is one of the more successful examples of fleshing out an archetype in object shows but alas.... I suppose being stuck with Team ? which is the least involved in the show's plotline(with a bad losing streak to boot) doesn't help.
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viscera zombie
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its all about the he-said, she-said bullshit >_>...
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Post by viscera zombie on Jun 6, 2024 2:28:38 GMT
The second season fleshed out Post-It Note so he won't be a one-note Insufferable Genius type, yet I feel most people only depict him with a watered-down version of the kinder aspect of him. thats usually how it goes, yeah? people LOVE to depict characters as very one-note versions of themselves. i think this is, as usual, a result of how much teens and tweens are in the OSC. they aren't usually as good at picking up nuances and depth and just take a character at their very basic, easily recognizable face value. and especially when you add on that teens arent always the best at articulating their thoughts (at least i wasnt as a teenager), its a whole lot easier to say "i like this character because he's smart and nice and helps this other character" than to try and go into all the detail that you probably didnt even pick up on. that being said, its definitely still annoying, mainly in terms of how it limits peoples' ability to have actual discussions about media. if everything is one-note shipping fodder completely disconnected from canon, then its hard to actually look deeper into the source material and take in things you never noticed beforehand. admittedly i don't watch PPT2 but i feel this same way about a lot of characters that often get reduced to "likes this other guy". ironically this is something that i can ALSO apply to my example of Lightbulb from the first post of this thread! i feel like a lot of people only care about her in the context of shipping her with Paintbrush or vice versa. not "Lightbulb is a character with a quirky personality who can act selfish and downright mean at times" but "Lightbulb is an uwu hyper baby who loves her uwu enby partner Painty!!!"
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treasuredguardian
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Post by treasuredguardian on Jun 6, 2024 3:26:15 GMT
thats usually how it goes, yeah? people LOVE to depict characters as very one-note versions of themselves. i think this is, as usual, a result of how much teens and tweens are in the OSC. they aren't usually as good at picking up nuances and depth and just take a character at their very basic, easily recognizable face value. and especially when you add on that teens arent always the best at articulating their thoughts (at least i wasnt as a teenager), its a whole lot easier to say "i like this character because he's smart and nice and helps this other character" than to try and go into all the detail that you probably didnt even pick up on. that being said, its definitely still annoying, mainly in terms of how it limits peoples' ability to have actual discussions about media. if everything is one-note shipping fodder completely disconnected from canon, then its hard to actually look deeper into the source material and take in things you never noticed beforehand. admittedly i don't watch PPT2 but i feel this same way about a lot of characters that often get reduced to "likes this other guy". ironically this is something that i can ALSO apply to my example of Lightbulb from the first post of this thread! i feel like a lot of people only care about her in the context of shipping her with Paintbrush or vice versa. not "Lightbulb is a character with a quirky personality who can act selfish and downright mean at times" but "Lightbulb is an uwu hyper baby who loves her uwu enby partner Painty!!!"
Yeah. I try to cut some slack knowing the community consists of kids. I do find it frustrating finding content that isn't shipping or boring versions of my favorite characters. It's a shame that forms that aren't shipping are frowned upon, I feel being limiting does more harm than good to everyone as someone who doesn't care about shipping AND likes explaining things in-depth.
Oh yeah, I really don't like how II fans take away the bite a lot of II characters have. Even the "nicer" characters had a bit of an edge to them. Lightbulb as you mentioned is a good example of this. A lot of II consists of the many different ways the characters can take a challenge or even just butt heads with one another. I would explain in more depth, but I'm a bit tired and I'm not sure how to go about articulating myself on this show.
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Post by suuuuuuuuuuuuugar on Jun 6, 2024 7:33:49 GMT
Oh boy. This reminded me of this cringe drawing I made in 2018:  In the early days, X had it rough in this regard. And it doesn't help that sometimes the characters are misinterpreted by their own creators. I still have no idea how Four became what he is today. My epic theory is that they adapted and absorbed the behaviors of the objects, with all of the ways in which they can be flawed included. I always hated that in fanart Four and X most of the time even had matching eye colors, as if they are bound to each other and can't exist as separate characters. When the "Donut is the host now" arc rolled around, I was really disappointed that it didn't last longer, X interacting with ANYONE but Four was such a refresher, I wanted to see him develop a possible friendship with Donut too.  I don't even like the algebraliens and they are my least favorite hosts, but I have to admit, they had a lot of missed potential. |
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treasuredguardian
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Post by treasuredguardian on Jun 6, 2024 17:16:04 GMT
In the early days, X had it rough in this regard. And it doesn't help that sometimes the characters are misinterpreted by their own creators. I still have no idea how Four became what he is today. My epic theory is that they adapted and absorbed the behaviors of the objects, with all of the ways in which they can be flawed included. I always hated that in fanart Four and X most of the time even had matching eye colors, as if they are bound to each other and can't exist as separate characters. When the "Donut is the host now" arc rolled around, I was really disappointed that it didn't last longer, X interacting with ANYONE but Four was such a refresher, I wanted to see him develop a possible friendship with Donut too. :cry: I don't even like the algebraliens and they are my least favorite hosts, but I have to admit, they had a lot of missed potential. Wow, it got that bad? I remember watching the Donut arc as it came out and being disappointed with it's results. I never watched Post-Split, but the way 4 and X acted in the subscriber specials has always baffled me. It is a shame when even the creators don't get their characters right, or at the very least write them as a shell of what they used to be. |
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objectirl
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Post by objectirl on Jun 8, 2024 11:06:19 GMT
It really REALLY annoys me whether people depict a character only as shipping fodder(or an addon) to another character, even if they have personality and lives outside of that character. PAPER II.......... Like, okay, don't get us wrong. We love Paper pairings! Although we don't actively doodle stuff for it, we have an entire Paper x Knife art collection! However, it so often feels like everyone just reduces him to his presence in ships with him (mostly PayJay. Speaking of, OJ similarly gets seen as merely a half of this ship a lot of the time). And then there's the matter of his nervous, a bit shy at times nature... Which are not necessarily traits he doesn't have, but it is more nuanced that it's treated both in fandom and post S1 the actual show (more of our take on it, can't say for too certain)- Paper canonically has trauma and DID, which oftentimes forms as a result of trauma. And like, atleast from personal experiences and observations, demeanor like this often is atleast influenced by stuff of that kind. We guess we just want to see more acknowledgement of exactly that. Explore the implications on why he's the way he is! Though honestly this is probably us reading him with too much depth (despite the writing flaws in s1) because hey, we are like him. We're like him a lot. It's why he's our favorite. But honestly even beyond the whole "hey can you please factor in that he has trauma and a CDD" side of things, we generally feel like fandom portrayal could use a bit more of an edge to it. Like come on, man was friends with KNIFE at one point! That has to mean atleast something for him. All of this is convoluted and very nitpicky abt a kinda underdeveloped post s1 character, we apologize.
Though we also have a similar complaint about how Suitcase is treated in terms of personality traits. And Apple, and kiiiind of Yin, and- (We are dragged off before the rant extends to every even mildly shy II character). Apple also has the shipping complaint, but she's not popular enough for it to be as big as the one we have for Paper. Any Apple content makes us happy at this point lol
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objectirl
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Post by objectirl on Jun 8, 2024 11:39:01 GMT
It really REALLY annoys me whether people depict a character only as shipping fodder(or an addon) to another character, even if they have personality and lives outside of that character. PAPER II.......... Like, okay, don't get us wrong. We love Paper pairings! Although we don't actively doodle stuff for it, we have an entire Paper x Knife art collection! However, it so often feels like everyone just reduces him to his presence in ships with him (mostly PayJay. Speaking of, OJ similarly gets seen as merely a half of this ship a lot of the time). And then there's the matter of his nervous, a bit shy at times nature... Which are not necessarily traits he doesn't have, but it is more nuanced that it's treated both in fandom and post S1 the actual show (more of our take on it, can't say for too certain)- Paper canonically has trauma and DID, which oftentimes forms as a result of trauma. And like, atleast from personal experiences and observations, demeanor like this often is atleast influenced by stuff of that kind. We guess we just want to see more acknowledgement of exactly that. Explore the implications on why he's the way he is! Though honestly this is probably us reading him with too much depth (despite the writing flaws in s1) because hey, we are like him. We're like him a lot. It's why he's our favorite. But honestly even beyond the whole "hey can you please factor in that he has trauma and a CDD" side of things, we generally feel like fandom portrayal could use a bit more of an edge to it. Like come on, man was friends with KNIFE at one point! That has to mean atleast something for him. All of this is convoluted and very nitpicky abt a kinda underdeveloped post s1 character, we apologize. Though we also have a similar complaint about how Suitcase is treated in terms of personality traits. And Apple, and kiiiind of Yin, and- (We are dragged off before the rant extends to every even mildly shy II character). Apple also has the shipping complaint, but she's not popular enough for it to be as big as the one we have for Paper. Any Apple content makes us happy at this point lol
Rewatched bits of s1 where Paper is, arguably not all the anger expressed was only EP's! He was angry too. And in the rejoin (timestamped), he had some sass too! Like woah! This would be so interesting to see acknowledged and used more as a character trait, really :nerd: ! Like sure, he also backed out of escalating a bit after, but still. After this, it seems thats when the nervous trait picks up. But we don't even necessarily think all past traits like, stopped being a thing fully. For example, this could also count as a Paper sass moment. And this!
Also it's notable the episode where OJ calls EP well... evil, EP ends up voting OJ in the contestant vote. Possible hints at maybe wanting to be seen as more <- reaching, but it's a neat detail to consider for personal interpretations
TL:DR: please consider Paper as not just nervous propaganda. We love him so much pleage,,,,,,, Also still convoluted wording sorry
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objectirl
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Post by objectirl on Jun 8, 2024 12:01:32 GMT
not sure how much side content counts but in the FFF for Paper, he seemed happy to be included for once, before well... you know. It also had more exibits of him actually showing frustration (totally just. picking at any possible detail bat this point but look. okay. we like him). similar ordeal with the Seas The Day video about wanting to be included and frustration when things go otherwise. you know.
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treasuredguardian
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Post by treasuredguardian on Jun 8, 2024 18:49:38 GMT
PAPER II.......... Like, okay, don't get us wrong. We love Paper pairings! Although we don't actively doodle stuff for it, we have an entire Paper x Knife art collection! However, it so often feels like everyone just reduces him to his presence in ships with him (mostly PayJay. Speaking of, OJ similarly gets seen as merely a half of this ship a lot of the time). And then there's the matter of his nervous, a bit shy at times nature... Which are not necessarily traits he doesn't have, but it is more nuanced that it's treated both in fandom and post S1 the actual show (more of our take on it, can't say for too certain)- Paper canonically has trauma and DID, which oftentimes forms as a result of trauma. And like, atleast from personal experiences and observations, demeanor like this often is atleast influenced by stuff of that kind. We guess we just want to see more acknowledgement of exactly that. Explore the implications on why he's the way he is! Though honestly this is probably us reading him with too much depth (despite the writing flaws in s1) because hey, we are like him. We're like him a lot. It's why he's our favorite. But honestly even beyond the whole "hey can you please factor in that he has trauma and a CDD" side of things, we generally feel like fandom portrayal could use a bit more of an edge to it. Like come on, man was friends with KNIFE at one point! That has to mean atleast something for him. All of this is convoluted and very nitpicky abt a kinda underdeveloped post s1 character, we apologize. Though we also have a similar complaint about how Suitcase is treated in terms of personality traits. And Apple, and kiiiind of Yin, and- (We are dragged off before the rant extends to every even mildly shy II character). Apple also has the shipping complaint, but she's not popular enough for it to be as big as the one we have for Paper. Any Apple content makes us happy at this point lol
Yeah, Paper's depiction in fanon has always confused me. Putting aside how his trauma was handled, he DID have a personality outside of it and it's nothing like the one he gets in fan work. I always figured his voice and poses were a factor in this.
I would complain about Suitcase's depiction if I wanted to LOL. I feel there was some nuance to her kindness and reason for being a doormat that a lot of people just gloss over? Apple as well. :'] I actually do love MarshApple(Maapple?) but I feel not many people acknowledge Apple's struggles and personality as much as Marsh?
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