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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 17:05:29 GMT
Not sure what category to put this in but this feels character focused enough to put here... I wanna talk about disabled characters in Object Shows - Something I'm very passionate about is disability in media and how It's portrayed and I feel like It's an underdiscussed topic. In this case I moreso wanna focus on "canon" or implied characters but I won't object speculation as It can be pretty interesting. I just try not to go into basic headcanon territory too much. The first ones that come in mind are Teadrop, Woody and to a lesser extent Black Hole as this is as close we have to "canon" disabled characters, though I use that term loosely since I doubt it was intended to be taken that way. If it was that'd be pretty questionable considering how It's portrayed...
Teardrop is a tricky case for me. It's pretty hard to not consider a character that is always mute as disabled, on the other hand If she was confirmed to be, that'd make a lot of the jokes about her quite cruel. I still find them in poor taste, especially for a show that mostly children are watching. I can't blame children for repeating the same "Haha she can't talk!" jokes, ones that are done in the show as well, It just makes me worry a bit. Woody I feel to a little similarily, I feel like he's often forgotten in these discussions despite having a speech impediment of sorts. I really don't like how they started getting rid of it in post split. It feels like trying to "fix" him to make him easier to understand to the audience, even If they might've done it to make him seem more "confident" and comfortable with himself. But that would open another can of implications I'm not fond of. Also, his phobias. Phobias are an anxiety disorder. And it's more than just a one-off gag with him. Black Hole I merely mentioned due to him being Hard of Hearing, tho this isn't something that is focused on. Similar to Barf Bag who's shown leaning on other contestants which made people believe she had some sort of disorder that made it hard for her to stand for prolonged periods of time. (I think the popular headcanon for this was ALS.) My favorite example for this topic however is Charlotte from ONE. Her mold growth can easily be parralled to real life terminal disorders. Outside of that, her percieving help by friends as a them seeing her as uncapable really stuck with me. Allowing help means actions taken out of your own hands, when disabled people already have to deal with autonomy being stripped away from them. It feels like your independence is taken away and Charlotte is clearly someone who values her self-independence. It's a very interesting angle to see without her being demonized (fanbase aside). She's my favorite because of it. Anyway before this post gets too long - Do you guys know of any other characters that are disabled or can be read that way? How do you feel about them? Feel free to add onto any examples I've given too. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Post by Exit on Apr 15, 2024 17:16:10 GMT
Teardrop absolutely deserved better treatment in that regard (no biased statement intended). I was a little disappointed when Eggy was immediately made friendly with her after pushing her on a very personal topic for no good reason, and to her evident discomfort. I don't think it's wrong to show characters reconciling, but it seems like object shows in general have a poor habit of accelerating this process such that it seems like characters who are experiencing (even mild or unintentional) ableist behavior from others have some kind of obligation to forgive and trust them with immediacy. Questionable implications aside, it would simply be more interesting to make apology and reconciliation a slower, more deliberately-written process.
I can agree wholeheartedly with Charlotte being one of the most interesting examples of disability in object shows. I only wish there were more viewers who really processed the complexity involved. J-:
I can think of several Inanimate Insanity characters who are or can be considered disabled, but I fear that that might veer into more critical territory than is desirable. I might go after someone else re: that one. :-X
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 17:30:43 GMT
Teardrop absolutely deserved better treatment in that regard (no biased statement intended). I was a little disappointed when Eggy was immediately made friendly with her after pushing her on a very personal topic for no good reason, and to her evident discomfort. I don't think it's wrong to show characters reconciling, but it seems like object shows in general have a poor habit of accelerating this process such that it seems like characters who are experiencing (even mild or unintentional) ableist behavior from others have some kind of obligation to forgive and trust them with immediacy. Questionable implications aside, it would simply be more interesting to make apology and reconciliation a slower, more deliberately-written process. I can agree wholeheartedly with Charlotte being one of the most interesting examples of disability in object shows. I only wish there were more viewers who really processed the complexity involved. J-: I can think of several Inanimate Insanity characters who are or can be considered disabled, but I fear that that might veer into more critical territory than is desirable. I might go after someone else re: that one. :-X Thank you for mentioning that scene, I nearly forgot about it! It's definitely sad that It's not something taken more seriously. It's not given much second thought because of how normalized it is, especially in her case where her muteness is treated as merely a running gag. Contrary to a common point I see, I feel like especially in a show that's more kid-friendly we should allow discussions like that to happen more instead of immediately letting them forgive. It would've been really beneficial for both of their characters If it was discussed further, you're totally right. I'm glad you feel similar to Charlotte. If only others did too!! Very frustrating. I'm not really an Inanimate Insanity watcher (stopped in the middle of Season 3) but I've heard some really ugly things from my friends. Even from season 2 which I barely remember, I can immediately think of characters like Soap or YinYang who are OCD and DID stereotypes respectively. Probably more I forgot. At least with these I can give the writers more leeway since they were teenagers, but I felt like mentioning regardless. Feel free to be more critical If you wish. I'm always aware there's more often criticism than anything else irt disability in media in general... I wouldn't want anyone to hold back, considering this topic is already not discussed enough.
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viscera zombie
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Post by viscera zombie on Apr 15, 2024 17:59:23 GMT
i have an object character who's physically disabled, uses crutches to move or is usually sitting down somewhere... admittedly his disability isnt a major part of his character but i also avoid making cruel jokes at his expense or trying to "fix" him. i think when object show creators do that they aren't intentionally trying to be ableist but its definitely still worth noting that harming someone unintentionally doesn't reduce the harm thats done. with Woody specifically him being scared of everything and having unintelligible speech is definitely the "joke" of his character and i dont think it was ever considered how that could be hurtful to people with anxiety disorders or how trying to "fix" his speech problems could be a bad move, but again, that doesnt mean it can't still upset people.
another character i wanna bring up is Tissues from II because he's actually my favorite character but its another case where i really wish he got better treatment. i like him not just bc i think he's a funny character and i like his personality but because i relate to him a lot as someone who deals with chronic illness and chronic pain. its another case where, intentionally ableist or not, his illness is the entire "joke" of his character. and being the first elimination of season 2 and having barely any appearances after that means his personality barely gets explored out of "haha, he's sick, thats so gross!". even when he starts getting more of a personality in future appearances his "condishawn" is still treated as a gross-out joke and not just... him having a chronic illness. i just really wish he got treated better because i really like him. it sucks that one of the few characters i can relate to in any fiction whatsoever is treated like his illness is funny and gross.
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 19:21:52 GMT
i have an object character who's physically disabled, uses crutches to move or is usually sitting down somewhere... admittedly his disability isnt a major part of his character but i also avoid making cruel jokes at his expense or trying to "fix" him. i think when object show creators do that they aren't intentionally trying to be ableist but its definitely still worth noting that harming someone unintentionally doesn't reduce the harm thats done. with Woody specifically him being scared of everything and having unintelligible speech is definitely the "joke" of his character and i dont think it was ever considered how that could be hurtful to people with anxiety disorders or how trying to "fix" his speech problems could be a bad move, but again, that doesnt mean it can't still upset people.
another character i wanna bring up is Tissues from II because he's actually my favorite character but its another case where i really wish he got better treatment. i like him not just bc i think he's a funny character and i like his personality but because i relate to him a lot as someone who deals with chronic illness and chronic pain. its another case where, intentionally ableist or not, his illness is the entire "joke" of his character. and being the first elimination of season 2 and having barely any appearances after that means his personality barely gets explored out of "haha, he's sick, thats so gross!". even when he starts getting more of a personality in future appearances his "condishawn" is still treated as a gross-out joke and not just... him having a chronic illness. i just really wish he got treated better because i really like him. it sucks that one of the few characters i can relate to in any fiction whatsoever is treated like his illness is funny and gross.
Yeah absolutely, intentional or not It's quite harmful. Many see them as mere cartoon tropes when those tropes exist to poke fun of disabled people to begin with. Tissues is such an unfortunate character!! It really hurts when a character you can relate to is watered down to a mere joke x_x I feel like you can say this about a lot of II characters... Season 2 was unfortunately heavier on the stereotype humor which makes it sad for characters stuck to only that season (mostly the earlier part) who didn't get to grow much outside of it.
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Post by tangerines on Apr 15, 2024 19:52:46 GMT
I'm not really an Inanimate Insanity watcher (stopped in the middle of Season 3) but I've heard some really ugly things from my friends. Even from season 2 which I barely remember, I can immediately think of characters like Soap or YinYang who are OCD and DID stereotypes respectively. Probably more I forgot. At least with these I can give the writers more leeway since they were teenagers, but I felt like mentioning regardless. Feel free to be more critical If you wish. I'm always aware there's more often criticism than anything else irt disability in media in general... I wouldn't want anyone to hold back, considering this topic is already not discussed enough. this may be a controversial opinion but as someone who has both DID and OCD (✌️) i find both of them to be pretty good characters. soap is definitely written as intensely stereotypical and dismissive at first LOL and it does kind of suck to watch, but yeah the writers were very young at that point. i ended up liking soap by the end of the show despite her questionable origin point, and ive always found the end of her arc where she processes the unhealthiness of her obsessions to be pretty cute, even if it was obviously not executed perfectly. plurality rep in ii is something i could talk about aaalll day tbh. if anything i feel like yin yang is actually the character i find the least obviously a DID metaphor! i love reading them that way because i'm biased, but i feel like you could make an argument that it functions much less like an actual dissociative disorder and more like something like conjoined twins. the real answer though is just that they were designed by like a 14 year old who thought the idea of an object being 2 objects was cool XD but yeah, i really hate how yin yang is written in season 2 and always have. i feel like season 3 though did a muuuuuuuch better job and turning both yin and yang into actual 3-dimensional characters though. the mini-arc they had about learning to communicate with each other and share control of the body was pretty relatable to me, and if anything i'd argue that thats the stuff that makes them significantly more system coded than anything in season 2
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Post by tangerines on Apr 15, 2024 20:03:10 GMT
now the OTHER system-coded character i have much more qualms with, and its nuts bc ive never seen anyone talk about this wrt his writing, is paper. season 1 paper is so obviously written from the most 12 year old perspective of how multiple personalities work, its kind of hilarious to me if anything. its VERY explicit though that "evil paper" is a result of the trauma from idiotic island, takes control of paper's body in the way alters do, and is brought to the front by reminders of trauma, AND that paper doesn't remember the times when he isn't in the front (even though all of these things are played exclusively as jokes). obviously evil paper is the most on the nose "evil violent alter" stereotype ever too but i feel like that almost goes unstated XD
again though, the writers were like 12-14 year olds at this point so i really dont blame them for any of this. the biggest thing that DOES bother me though is the fact that the arc ends with paper just facing off with evil paper in headspace and "defeating him," thereby curing his DID forever and then its never brought up again. i feel like its such a detriment to paper's character that the writers continue to do things with him in non-canon bonus stuff and just not bring up anything about this arc that was like the most significant and interesting thing about his character!!
and yeah like i get WHY they're avoiding mentioning it, if there's one thing that singlets know about writing positive system rep it's that "evil alters" are a horrible and harmful trope. my controversial opinion #2 though is that i feel like people lean way too far in the other direction a lot of the time, and are afraid to write any potentially plural-coded characters at all in case it might fall into that trope or something. the reality of DID is that sometimes alters actually are harmful and want to hurt people! almost always though that means hurt the body rather than others, and it never means that they're Evil Demented Psychopaths or whatever.
all of this is to say that i hope if they ever do bring paper back, they at LEAST make a mention of this as events that happened. they don't have to bring back evil paper as a character, in fact its probably best if they didn't ngl, but just give me SOMETHING that implies he didn't solve all of his problems by killing his evil trauma personification with a piano in headspace. have him mention being in therapy or something idfk
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Post by tangerines on Apr 15, 2024 20:11:37 GMT
ok, now to talk about actually POSITIVE rep in ii! i'm kinda tired of typing so i probably won't give TOO much of an essay here, but i think cabby is an excellently, excellently written character and the one that i'd PERSONALLY argue is the most accurate to the real world experience of having DID. which is extremely funny considering she's the only one of these 3 who isn't literally textually plural, she just has memory loss issues. but to me the way those issues interact with her overall arc is really compelling, and it really hit home seeing her accept that, yes, her overreliance on notes and organization WAS actively making her memory worse, but at the same time that didn't mean she had to give up on her accessibility tools to heal. again i won't keep getting into it but i really love cabby's character and i'm very happy with how her arc ended up, even if it had some rocky points along the way :b
suitcase is the other one i'll throw in here as a mention. i personally read her as having some form of schizophrenia, but regardless she definitely experiences psychosis in one form or another. i adore everything about how her arc is handled, the depiction of visual and auditory hallucinations, the paranoia, etc etc. she's so great and i really can't wait to see more of her in ii2 ep 15!! i've been waiting so many years for it to be followed up on but more than anything i just want to see her be happy...
sorry for splitting my response into 3 separate posts i just had a lot to say on this topic. also to be clear anyone here is free to disagree with me, especially wrt soap i guarantee other people with ocd would probably feel way more negative to her writing. i just tend to latch onto any characters i can read as disabled in one way or another i think, esp in ways that are relatable to me :U
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viscera zombie
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Post by viscera zombie on Apr 15, 2024 20:28:23 GMT
ok, now to talk about actually POSITIVE rep in ii! i'm kinda tired of typing so i probably won't give TOO much of an essay here, but i think cabby is an excellently, excellently written character and the one that i'd PERSONALLY argue is the most accurate to the real world experience of having DID. which is extremely funny considering she's the only one of these 3 who isn't literally textually plural, she just has memory loss issues. but to me the way those issues interact with her overall arc is really compelling, and it really hit home seeing her accept that, yes, her overreliance on notes and organization WAS actively making her memory worse, but at the same time that didn't mean she had to give up on her accessibility tools to heal. again i won't keep getting into it but i really love cabby's character and i'm very happy with how her arc ended up, even if it had some rocky points along the way :b suitcase is the other one i'll throw in here as a mention. i personally read her as having some form of schizophrenia, but regardless she definitely experiences psychosis in one form or another. i adore everything about how her arc is handled, the depiction of visual and auditory hallucinations, the paranoia, etc etc. she's so great and i really can't wait to see more of her in ii2 ep 15!! i've been waiting so many years for it to be followed up on but more than anything i just want to see her be happy... sorry for splitting my response into 3 separate posts i just had a lot to say on this topic. also to be clear anyone here is free to disagree with me, especially wrt soap i guarantee other people with ocd would probably feel way more negative to her writing. i just tend to latch onto any characters i can read as disabled in one way or another i think, esp in ways that are relatable to me :U i can definitely say as someone with pretty severe memory loss issues from PTSD i can relate a lot to Cabby, just in a different way. to be honest, i stopped watching season 3 a long time ago, but by then it was already made clear that she suffers from memory loss and i heard there was a scene where she says that she even forgot her own parents? i can definitely understand the pain of being totally unable to remember your own childhood because it all just got essentially erased. you miss parts of your past but can't even remember what you're missing. i miss my childhood dogs, but i have basically zero remaining memories of them and what i do remember is fuzzy. i basically lost everything from before i turned 16 and it hurts so much. and sometimes i still lose recent memories. Cabby, like Tissues, is one of few characters i can relate to on that front, but i definitely think she's a lot better written than him (at least her disability isnt a one-note stereotype treated as a joke...)
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Post by Exit on Apr 15, 2024 20:44:00 GMT
I suppose I have my go-ahead. :-P I'll go in order of addition to the series. Cabby is canonically disabled, experiencing a form of memory loss that necessitates the files she keeps. I'm sure most people here are aware of the controversy that this reveal and its immediate treatment caused when S3E14 came out. We find out that Cabby's files, previously presented as being of ambiguously nefarious purpose, are actually the aid that she uses to retain information. Immediately, Bot becomes upset with her for keeping a file on them that is outdated (containing information about Bow), to the extent of deliberately lying to Cabby to try and obfuscate the file's usefulness. This is resolved by Cabby discarding her file and rolling over it. This is not only questionable, but confusing. The episode could have retained the obvious original intentions of her files, that being that they were kept for some personal motive, or could have revealed that the files are an aid of hers without immediately presenting the aid as less important than the feelings of an abled person; either situation would have proved inoffensive. Instead, we got this. When this happened, the episode's writer (Justin Chapman) publicly apologized for the episode's contents, and tried to explain what he had in mind. Personally, I have no criticisms of the apology itself, but you can and should make what you will of it individually. I haven't watched a new episode of Inanimate Insanity since S3E14, but have taken a good look at the transcripts of III's two-part finale while using the Wiki, and Cabby has some dialogue that enters questionable territory in S3E19 ( link to transcript). While arguing with Springy, she explains that despite the prejudice she experienced by other characters, she still tried to "listen to others and connect with them." I'm obviously missing the tone-of-voice and visuals which with this is delivered, so do feel free to correct me, but it reads as though there's supposed to be a kind of moral righteousness in Cabby's refusal to stand up for herself. I think the idea that allowing others to treat you with ableism is at all righteous is misplaced. I'm not sure whether or not nonstandard limbs necessarily count as a disability, but in the case of Cabby, her wheels seem to function as such in at least one case. In S3E10, Cabby struggles to physically navigate the obstacle course that MePhone has created. Goo, who lacks limbs, struggles with the same challenge because the material that his body is composed of sticks him a pole, but that may be even more a stretch to call a "disability." The rest of the characters that I have in mind are either older as a whole, or haven't received dedicated screen time in several years. Thus, I don't intend for the following thoughts to serve as a judgement of any writers' present attitudes, prejudices, degree of knowledge, etc.; it's just all I have to work with regarding them. Soap was stated to have OCD during an AMA with Taylor Grodin in 2017. His (and the implied other writers') thoughts on her are well-intentioned, but in the end, the fact of her character is that she is unfortunately stereotypical. I think a specific tendency shared by all four writers who have worked on II is visible here, but I'll save that for later. I appreciate what they've added tried to add to her character since her debut, and can see where it seeks to address the problems specific to her (ex. giving her an interest in gaming stops her sole hobby from being "cleaning"). another character i wanna bring up is Tissues from II because he's actually my favorite character but its another case where i really wish he got better treatment. i like him not just bc i think he's a funny character and i like his personality but because i relate to him a lot as someone who deals with chronic illness and chronic pain. its another case where, intentionally ableist or not, his illness is the entire "joke" of his character. and being the first elimination of season 2 and having barely any appearances after that means his personality barely gets explored out of "haha, he's sick, thats so gross!". even when he starts getting more of a personality in future appearances his "condishawn" is still treated as a gross-out joke and not just... him having a chronic illness. i just really wish he got treated better because i really like him. it sucks that one of the few characters i can relate to in any fiction whatsoever is treated like his illness is funny and gross.
This is exactly what I make of Tissues, too. It's unfortunate that he's also a character who has seem little improved treatment from II's writers. The table read of FFFE1 (2020) is somewhat different from the final episode, particularly in Tissues' interactions with Fan. I'm not sure how to describe what I make of it, but it's worth listening to on your own. While a potentially very odd detail, following the release of III S3E14, a Twitter user made a thread about ableism in II that mentioned Tissues being based on a real person. Adam Katz blocked the user who made it, and claimed that it was because this was misinformation, and Tissues was not based on a real person. I'm not sure what to make of that, because this statement (that Tissues is based on a real person) was corroborated by Taylor several times. I'm having trouble getting my hands on a Tumblr post where he mentions it, but there is this YouTube video (2013) where it's said. I'm not exactly sure if Adam doesn't remember that this happened, was just denying that it did, or if it really is a weird old fabrication. In any case, it's another part of Tissues' strange and often disappointing treatment, even in the present day. Yin-Yang and Paper have both received criticism on the grounds that they resemble stereotypical depictions of DID and OSDD. I'm not well-informed enough about either disorder to make specific calls here, so I won't. I will add of Yin-Yang that the use of a specific spiritual symbol as a character who is intended to resemble a very simplified understanding of it may be inherently distasteful, but again, this is a "may" that waits for somebody more knowledgeable. It also has little to do with disability by itself past an intersection of concept and depiction ("two are one" can be depicted in a character several ways, and the depiction chosen by II's writers ostensibly resembles DID/OSDD). Bomb may have gotten the least recent attention of all these characters. He has a stutter associated with kinds of speech disorders, which sometimes "is the joke," specifically when it ostensibly inconveniences other characters by prolonging the amount of time it takes him to complete sentences. He's been inconsistently depicted with crossed eyes and/or a comparably low level of intelligence. This is a somewhat offensive combination of characteristics that appears to be a general riff on different forms of developmental and intellectual disability. On one hand, I appreciate that they no longer want to depict these characteristics as jokes, much less a general stereotype as Bomb was, but on the other, it's unfortunate that his entire character has been essentially discarded when it's still possible to present him in some more innocuous ways. This is not specific to any one character, but like many other object shows, Inanimate Insanity has several armless characters. Any jokes or other strange moments centered around a character's lack of arms seem to have disappeared as the series has progressed, to me demonstrating a logical understanding not just that these are a tired occurrence in object shows, but that they may be tasteless. I can't complain about that.
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 20:44:50 GMT
now the OTHER system-coded character i have much more qualms with, and its nuts bc ive never seen anyone talk about this wrt his writing, is paper. season 1 paper is so obviously written from the most 12 year old perspective of how multiple personalities work, its kind of hilarious to me if anything. its VERY explicit though that "evil paper" is a result of the trauma from idiotic island, takes control of paper's body in the way alters do, and is brought to the front by reminders of trauma, AND that paper doesn't remember the times when he isn't in the front (even though all of these things are played exclusively as jokes). obviously evil paper is the most on the nose "evil violent alter" stereotype ever too but i feel like that almost goes unstated XD again though, the writers were like 12-14 year olds at this point so i really dont blame them for any of this. the biggest thing that DOES bother me though is the fact that the arc ends with paper just facing off with evil paper in headspace and "defeating him," thereby curing his DID forever and then its never brought up again. i feel like its such a detriment to paper's character that the writers continue to do things with him in non-canon bonus stuff and just not bring up anything about this arc that was like the most significant and interesting thing about his character!! and yeah like i get WHY they're avoiding mentioning it, if there's one thing that singlets know about writing positive system rep it's that "evil alters" are a horrible and harmful trope. my controversial opinion #2 though is that i feel like people lean way too far in the other direction a lot of the time, and are afraid to write any potentially plural-coded characters at all in case it might fall into that trope or something. the reality of DID is that sometimes alters actually are harmful and want to hurt people! almost always though that means hurt the body rather than others, and it never means that they're Evil Demented Psychopaths or whatever. all of this is to say that i hope if they ever do bring paper back, they at LEAST make a mention of this as events that happened. they don't have to bring back evil paper as a character, in fact its probably best if they didn't ngl, but just give me SOMETHING that implies he didn't solve all of his problems by killing his evil trauma personification with a piano in headspace. have him mention being in therapy or something idfk Oh hey I also have OCD. Up-top. (Related to the other reply). I don't remember much of II so this isn't really me saying If the characters are likable or not, I just remember that most of them were written stereotypically in early season 2. So I can't say much on that front. I was thinking about evil paper actually - but I didn't know enough to add much onto that. He's definitely a Lot Worse from what I heard from others. But about avoiding it, I remember like.. a year ago or so Justin referred to evil paper as an alter during a stream but I wouldn't be able to find that now for the life of me. Does anyone remember this? Either way that's in no way anything canon. Which does suck!! I do understand that frustration irt DID rep. I'm currently working on a character (a host!) on my little side project/object cast who has DID. But I probably won't talk too much about it so ah... maybe someone else has to.
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 20:48:38 GMT
ok, now to talk about actually POSITIVE rep in ii! i'm kinda tired of typing so i probably won't give TOO much of an essay here, but i think cabby is an excellently, excellently written character and the one that i'd PERSONALLY argue is the most accurate to the real world experience of having DID. which is extremely funny considering she's the only one of these 3 who isn't literally textually plural, she just has memory loss issues. but to me the way those issues interact with her overall arc is really compelling, and it really hit home seeing her accept that, yes, her overreliance on notes and organization WAS actively making her memory worse, but at the same time that didn't mean she had to give up on her accessibility tools to heal. again i won't keep getting into it but i really love cabby's character and i'm very happy with how her arc ended up, even if it had some rocky points along the way :b suitcase is the other one i'll throw in here as a mention. i personally read her as having some form of schizophrenia, but regardless she definitely experiences psychosis in one form or another. i adore everything about how her arc is handled, the depiction of visual and auditory hallucinations, the paranoia, etc etc. she's so great and i really can't wait to see more of her in ii2 ep 15!! i've been waiting so many years for it to be followed up on but more than anything i just want to see her be happy... sorry for splitting my response into 3 separate posts i just had a lot to say on this topic. also to be clear anyone here is free to disagree with me, especially wrt soap i guarantee other people with ocd would probably feel way more negative to her writing. i just tend to latch onto any characters i can read as disabled in one way or another i think, esp in ways that are relatable to me :U I won't go too much into my personal issues but as someone with memory issues It's nice to see others relate to her! I gave up too early on in S3 to have much of an opinion on her but I'm glad It's something to others. And no worries! I love Woody even If his disability is written in a way that I'm not the most fond of. As somene who struggles with a few phobias myself. There's no shame in that.
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 21:03:34 GMT
I suppose I have my go-ahead. :-P I'll go in order of addition to the series. Cabby is canonically disabled, experiencing a form of memory loss that necessitates the files she keeps. I'm sure most people here are aware of the controversy that this reveal and its immediate treatment caused when S3E14 came out. We find out that Cabby's files, previously presented as being of ambiguously nefarious purpose, are actually the aid that she uses to retain information. Immediately, Bot becomes upset with her for keeping a file on them that is outdated (containing information about Bow), to the extent of deliberately lying to Cabby to try and obfuscate the file's usefulness. This is resolved by Cabby discarding her file and rolling over it. This is not only questionable, but confusing. The episode could have retained the obvious original intentions of her files, that being that they were kept for some personal motive, or could have revealed that the files are an aid of hers without immediately presenting the aid as less important than the feelings of an abled person; either situation would have proved inoffensive. Instead, we got this. When this happened, the episode's writer (Justin Chapman) publicly apologized for the episode's contents, and tried to explain what he had in mind. Personally, I have no criticisms of the apology itself, but you can and should make what you will of it individually. I haven't watched a new episode of Inanimate Insanity since S3E14, but have taken a good look at the transcripts of III's two-part finale while using the Wiki, and Cabby has some dialogue that enters questionable territory in S3E19 ( link to transcript). While arguing with Springy, she explains that despite the prejudice she experienced by other characters, she still tried to "listen to others and connect with them." I'm obviously missing the tone-of-voice and visuals which with this is delivered, so do feel free to correct me, but it reads as though there's supposed to be a kind of moral righteousness in Cabby's refusal to stand up for herself. I think the idea that allowing others to treat you with ableism is at all righteous is misplaced. I'm not sure whether or not nonstandard limbs necessarily count as a disability, but in the case of Cabby, her wheels seem to function as such in at least one case. In S3E10, Cabby struggles to physically navigate the obstacle course that MePhone has created. Goo, who lacks limbs, struggles with the same challenge because the material that his body is composed of sticks him a pole, but that may be even more a stretch to call a "disability." The rest of the characters that I have in mind are either older as a whole, or haven't received dedicated screen time in several years. Thus, I don't intend for the following thoughts to serve as a judgement of any writers' present attitudes, prejudices, degree of knowledge, etc.; it's just all I have to work with regarding them. Soap was stated to have OCD during an AMA with Taylor Grodin in 2017. His (and the implied other writers') thoughts on her are well-intentioned, but in the end, the fact of her character is that she is unfortunately stereotypical. I think a specific tendency shared by all four writers who have worked on II is visible here, but I'll save that for the end. I appreciate what they've added tried to add to her character since her debut, and can see where it seeks to address the problems specific to her (ex. giving her an interest in gaming stops her sole hobby from being "cleaning"). another character i wanna bring up is Tissues from II because he's actually my favorite character but its another case where i really wish he got better treatment. i like him not just bc i think he's a funny character and i like his personality but because i relate to him a lot as someone who deals with chronic illness and chronic pain. its another case where, intentionally ableist or not, his illness is the entire "joke" of his character. and being the first elimination of season 2 and having barely any appearances after that means his personality barely gets explored out of "haha, he's sick, thats so gross!". even when he starts getting more of a personality in future appearances his "condishawn" is still treated as a gross-out joke and not just... him having a chronic illness. i just really wish he got treated better because i really like him. it sucks that one of the few characters i can relate to in any fiction whatsoever is treated like his illness is funny and gross.
This is exactly what I make of Tissues, too. It's unfortunate that he's also a character who has seem little improved treatment from II's writers. The table read of FFFE1 (2020) is somewhat different from the final episode, particularly in Tissues' interactions with Fan. I'm not sure how to describe what I make of it, but it's worth listening to on your own. While a potentially very odd detail, following the release of III S3E14, a Twitter user made a thread about ableism in II that mentioned Tissues being based on a real person. Adam Katz blocked the user who made it, and claimed that it was because this was misinformation, and Tissues was not based on a real person. I'm not sure what to make of that, because this statement (that Tissues is based on a real person) was corroborated by Taylor several times. I'm having trouble getting my hands on a Tumblr post where he mentions it, but there is this YouTube video (2013) where it's said. I'm not exactly sure if Adam doesn't remember that this happened, was just denying that it did, or if it really is a weird old fabrication. In any case, it's another part of Tissues' strange and often disappointing treatment, even in the present day. Yin-Yang and Paper have both received criticism on the grounds that they resemble stereotypical depictions of DID and OSDD. I'm not well-informed enough about either disorder to make specific calls here, so I won't. I will add of Yin-Yang that the use of a specific spiritual symbol as a character who is intended to resemble a very simplified understanding of it may be inherently distasteful, but again, this is a "may" that waits for somebody more knowledgeable. It also has little to do with disability by itself past an intersection of concept and depiction ("two are one" can be depicted in a character several ways, and the depiction chosen by II's writers ostensibly resembles DID/OSDD). Bomb may have gotten the least recent attention of all these characters. He has a stutter associated with kinds of speech disorders, which sometimes "is the joke," specifically when it ostensibly inconveniences other characters by prolonging the amount of time it takes him to complete sentences. He's been inconsistently depicted with crossed eyes and/or a comparably low level of intelligence. This is a somewhat offensive combination of characteristics that appears to be a general riff on different forms of developmental and intellectual disability. On one hand, I appreciate that they no longer want to depict these characteristics as jokes, much less a general stereotype as Bomb was in general, but on the other, it's unfortunate that his entire character has been essentially discarded when it's still possible to present him in some more innocuous ways. This is not specific to any one character, but like many other object shows, Inanimate Insanity has several armless characters. Any jokes or other strange moments centered around a character's lack of arms seem to have disappeared as the series has progressed, to me demonstrating a logical understanding not just that these are a tired occurrence in object shows, but that they may be tasteless. I can't complain about that. This might be the longest reply on this forum so far WOW. I always admire your amount of research, you truly do It like no one else in this fanbase. As someone who doesn't really go here, I have to salute. I wish I could say more but I really appreciate your insight and sources! It's much appreciated. A little unfortunate I can't say much on my own thread seeing as most replies are about Inanimate Insanity but It was totally expected HAHA! IRT Nonstandard/Missing limbs: I never percieved them as a disability but I think It can definitely be written that way If intended so or maybe others can relate. It feels just a little too removed from reality to me especially considering a lot of those are mere design choices not really given a second thought or brought up too much especially as of recently. That's just me though. I'm physically disabled but I don't have limb differences/amputations so If someone else has something to say on the matter I would appreciate it. I think personally I just never liked the idea of seeing it as a hard truth because of how people only bring it up to harrass artists who humanize characters differently than canon. It felt very performative to me coming from abled bodied people. But that's just me LOL!
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viscera zombie
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Post by viscera zombie on Apr 15, 2024 21:06:43 GMT
Goo, who lacks limbs, struggles with the same challenge because the material that his body is composed of sticks him a pole, but that may be even more a stretch to call a "disability." actually, i wouldn't say that's much of a stretch? though i'd definitely call it more of a fun interpretation and not intentional depiction of disability. i kind of think it would be interesting to see more disability representation specific to the fact that these characters are objects. obviously theyre anthropomorphic and its nice to see stuff that parallels real life disabilities (in my case, chronic illness/pain and memory loss) but i dont think too much would be lost in taking advantage of an object's properties to display disability. if done respectfully i still think people can find it relatable! a non-OSC example that comes to mind is Scootaloo from My Little Pony, who's a pegasus filly that's unable to fly, and her wings remain underdeveloped through adulthood meaning she can never fly. while obviously real life humans don't have wings it can still be relatable to people with disabilities that hinder mobility.
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Post by tangerines on Apr 15, 2024 21:16:45 GMT
I suppose I have my go-ahead. :-P I'll go in order of addition to the series. Cabby is canonically disabled, experiencing a form of memory loss that necessitates the files she keeps. I'm sure most people here are aware of the controversy that this reveal and its immediate treatment caused when S3E14 came out. We find out that Cabby's files, previously presented as being of ambiguously nefarious purpose, are actually the aid that she uses to retain information. Immediately, Bot becomes upset with her for keeping a file on them that is outdated (containing information about Bow), to the extent of deliberately lying to Cabby to try and obfuscate the file's usefulness. This is resolved by Cabby discarding her file and rolling over it. This is not only questionable, but confusing. The episode could have retained the obvious original intentions of her files, that being that they were kept for some personal motive, or could have revealed that the files are an aid of hers without immediately presenting the aid as less important than the feelings of an abled person; either situation would have proved inoffensive. Instead, we got this. When this happened, the episode's writer (Justin Chapman) publicly apologized for the episode's contents, and tried to explain what he had in mind. Personally, I have no criticisms of the apology itself, but you can and should make what you will of it individually. yeah this is what i was talking about by rough stuff along the way. i think the way they handled this at the time was really unideal, but i think they successfully made it work with the context of the rest of her arc in retrospect. i definitely dont think that keeping the files as some nefarious purpose wouldve made her character better though, i am much more satisfied with her writing as it is now than i ever was before this reveal I haven't watched a new episode of Inanimate Insanity since S3E14, but have taken a good look at the transcripts of III's two-part finale while using the Wiki, and Cabby has some dialogue that enters questionable territory in S3E19 ( link to transcript). While arguing with Springy, she explains that despite the prejudice she experienced by other characters, she still tried to "listen to others and connect with them." I'm obviously missing the tone-of-voice and visuals which with this is delivered, so do feel free to correct me, but it reads as though there's supposed to be a kind of moral righteousness in Cabby's refusal to stand up for herself. I think the idea that allowing others to treat you with ableism is at all righteous is misplaced. i mean idk... i feel like this speech was like, placed within the context of the previous few episodes / especially her attempts to apologize for her game strategy in episode 18. the whole point of this conclusion of her arc was that she WAS nice to everyone, she DID do everything she could to connect with them, etc, but she also played the game strategically and used the tools she had to her best advantage, even if it bothered everyone around her or made her a lot of enemies! she has nothing to apologize for, and accepting that about herself was the last thing she needed to overcome her shame and accept that she actually did deserve to be recognized for her success!
it was definitely not a perfect transition or reveal, but the last few episodes of s3 managed to transform cabby from a mediocre villain into one of my favorite ii characters, period. i adore her as a character, and especially appreciate how relatable she is to me as someone with similar memory loss issues. i know it wasnt perfect, but i'm glad they tried you know? i'd always prefer imperfect but well-intentioned disability to rep to a complete lack of disabled characters in media entirely
Bomb may have gotten the least recent attention of all these characters. He has a stutter associated with kinds of speech disorders, which sometimes "is the joke," specifically when it ostensibly inconveniences other characters by prolonging the amount of time it takes him to complete sentences. He's been inconsistently depicted with crossed eyes and/or a comparably low level of intelligence. This is a somewhat offensive combination of characteristics that appears to be a general riff on different forms of developmental and intellectual disability. On one hand, I appreciate that they no longer want to depict these characteristics as jokes, much less a general stereotype as Bomb was in general, but on the other, it's unfortunate that his entire character has been essentially discarded when it's still possible to present him in some more innocuous ways. completely agree with this point though, bomb's treatment in season 1 is another sort of uncomfortable stain on the legacy of the show. and yeah, i totally agree that there seems to be this consistent tendency to just sweep these badly written disabled characters under the rug, instead of actually bringing them back and treating them as 3-dimensional people who arent Defined by their disabilities :/
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