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Post by Pony on Apr 15, 2024 21:33:48 GMT
*Rubs My Hooves Together* Disability in Object Shows OHHHHHHHHH!!! I've Always Personally Been Very Interested in Specifically Psychosis in Object Shows Because Its Such a Go To Plot Point for So Many and Also So So So Often Just the Worst Shit Ever. I Think Both Suitcase ii and Journal PPT2 are Examples of What I So Often Cannot Stand in Object Shows and Its When Psychosis Just Makes You Grumpy/Upset and Have Plot Relevant Visions. It Feels Like the Characters are Less Dealing With a Complex and Unruly Mental Health Spiral and More Like the Script is Telling Them Where to Go to Get the Plot On. I Like Suitcase a Lot Too (Journal Not So Much...) So Its a Shame She's Been Sidelined to Like, One Psychosis Reference Per Episode. Booooooooo  I Do Really Like Liam as a Psychotic Character Though. I Headcanon Him as Having a Form of Stressed Induced Schizophrenia, and I Think He's Pretty Well Done. While His Hallucinations in S1 are a Lot More Generic (The Stone One is Soooo Whatever), His Weird Fixations and General Mood Swings is Pretty Accurate, I Especially Hold a Lot of Fondness for the Scene Where He Runs to the Smokestack in Famous Last Words: There is No Code. One of My Favorite Scenes in an Object Show Ever, It Makes Me Get Choked Up Even Now. OP Mentioned Charlotte and She is ALSO a Good Disabled Character and Its a Shame She Got Dropped So Hard in S2 Because I Think a Segment Focused on Her After She Sorta is Beyond Help Would Be Really Interesting and Engaging. ALSO... if We are Plugging Ourselves I Have a Little Series Focused on My Own Disabled Character, Daisy Bell! It's a Series Very Much About Disability and Falling Down a Spiral So I Reckon Its Relevant Enough. 
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Post by natus on Apr 15, 2024 21:39:07 GMT
*Rubs My Hooves Together* Disability in Object Shows OHHHHHHHHH!!! I've Always Personally Been Very Interested in Specifically Psychosis in Object Shows Because Its Such a Go To Plot Point for So Many and Also So So So Often Just the Worst Shit Ever. I Think Both Suitcase ii and Journal PPT2 are Examples of What I So Often Cannot Stand in Object Shows and Its When Psychosis Just Makes You Grumpy/Upset and Have Plot Relevant Visions. It Feels Like the Characters are Less Dealing With a Complex and Unruly Mental Health Spiral and More Like the Script is Telling Them Where to Go to Get the Plot On. I Like Suitcase a Lot Too (Journal Not So Much...) So Its a Shame She's Been Sidelined to Like, One Psychosis Reference Per Episode. Booooooooo I Do Really Like Liam as a Psychotic Character Though. I Headcanon Him as Having a Form of Stressed Induced Schizophrenia, and I Think He's Pretty Well Done. While His Hallucinations in S1 are a Lot More Generic (The Stone One is Soooo Whatever), His Weird Fixations and General Mood Swings is Pretty Accurate, I Especially Hold a Lot of Fondness for the Scene Where He Runs to the Smokestack in Famous Last Words: There is No Code. One of My Favorite Scenes in an Object Show Ever, It Makes Me Get Choked Up Even Now. OP Mentioned Charlotte and She is ALSO a Good Disabled Character and Its a Shame She Got Dropped So Hard in S2 Because I Think a Segment Focused on Her After She Sorta is Beyond Help Would Be Really Interesting and Engaging. ALSO... if We are Plugging Ourselves I Have a Little Series Focused on My Own Disabled Character, Daisy Bell! It's a Series Very Much About Disability and Falling Down a Spiral So I Reckon Its Relevant Enough. oh my god dude YES daisy bell is written soooooososo well it hurts me im not even kidding 
ALSO! really interesting liam headcanon!! i can totally see him being psychotic im nodding along with ya, and i really do wish we got to see more of charlotte too UGHHH shes so great
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Post by tangerines on Apr 15, 2024 21:42:13 GMT
can i just say also, i really appreciate how kind and respectful everyone in this thread has been so far, even when we have differing opinions on these topics! i think with stuff like positive vs negative representation in media, everyone's going to have a different perspective on what comes off as relatable to them, and what feels more tokenizing or out of touch. no interpretation is inherently invalid, and that's kind of why i love hearing from people who disagree with me on how something came off to them! it's really interesting to hear other people's perspectives on stuff like this and makes me feel like i can see things in a new light ^w^
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Post by Pony on Apr 15, 2024 21:43:20 GMT
oh my god dude YES daisy bell is written soooooososo well it hurts me im not even kidding ALSO! really interesting liam headcanon!! i can totally see him being psychotic im nodding along with ya, and i really do wish we got to see more of charlotte too UGHHH shes so great
Oh I'm Aware of What Daisy Bell Did to You LOL. Its Always Appreciated Though, You're a Saint <3 And I'm Always Talking About This I'm Always Talking About Stressed Induced Schizophrenia, Liam is Just One of My Many Genius Psychosis Headcanons |
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 21:44:54 GMT
*Rubs My Hooves Together* Disability in Object Shows OHHHHHHHHH!!! I've Always Personally Been Very Interested in Specifically Psychosis in Object Shows Because Its Such a Go To Plot Point for So Many and Also So So So Often Just the Worst Shit Ever. I Think Both Suitcase ii and Journal PPT2 are Examples of What I So Often Cannot Stand in Object Shows and Its When Psychosis Just Makes You Grumpy/Upset and Have Plot Relevant Visions. It Feels Like the Characters are Less Dealing With a Complex and Unruly Mental Health Spiral and More Like the Script is Telling Them Where to Go to Get the Plot On. I Like Suitcase a Lot Too (Journal Not So Much...) So Its a Shame She's Been Sidelined to Like, One Psychosis Reference Per Episode. Booooooooo I Do Really Like Liam as a Psychotic Character Though. I Headcanon Him as Having a Form of Stressed Induced Schizophrenia, and I Think He's Pretty Well Done. While His Hallucinations in S1 are a Lot More Generic (The Stone One is Soooo Whatever), His Weird Fixations and General Mood Swings is Pretty Accurate, I Especially Hold a Lot of Fondness for the Scene Where He Runs to the Smokestack in Famous Last Words: There is No Code. One of My Favorite Scenes in an Object Show Ever, It Makes Me Get Choked Up Even Now. OP Mentioned Charlotte and She is ALSO a Good Disabled Character and Its a Shame She Got Dropped So Hard in S2 Because I Think a Segment Focused on Her After She Sorta is Beyond Help Would Be Really Interesting and Engaging. ALSO... if We are Plugging Ourselves I Have a Little Series Focused on My Own Disabled Character, Daisy Bell! It's a Series Very Much About Disability and Falling Down a Spiral So I Reckon Its Relevant Enough. I've been waiting for your reply here haha, I knew you'd have a good addition. I don't experience psychosis so I can't add onto that from a personal perspective but I totally agree, It's so dissapointing that It's merely used for plot points. Goes back to my point of people seeing disorders and their symptoms as merely a cartoon trope and don't think further on it. I really enjoy your take on Liam too. I hate when people kind of percieve him as a more "neutral" or "boring" character when he clearly goes through a lot of inner turmoil and just doesn't express it in an obvious "outward" way, If that makes sense? And yeah about Charlotte, on one hand I'm glad we got anyyyy conclusion at all in season 2 and I understand why she had to be shoved to the side but man there was a lot more that could've been done here. It's such a shame!! I feel similar to her as you feel towards Liam, where I get quite choked up talking about her sometimes. She deserved the world :-( I am SO vouching for Daisy Bell. One of the best portrayals I've seen on a psychotic/disabled character I've seen in a while. It's such a fresh breath of air seeing a character obviously spiraling and lashing out without them being demonized. I don't wanna say too much so people won't get spoiled and also because her and DNE's story MESS me up (in a good way). |
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Post by tangerines on Apr 15, 2024 21:45:36 GMT
oh also on the topic of OCD rep, curious to hear if anyone else thought black hole's plot line in the most recent tpot ep felt very ocd-esque. i thought exploring intrusive thoughts in a Literal Nightmare like that was so interesting, and i really liked the conclusion with him deciding to focus not on preventing death, but on promoting life :')
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 21:49:38 GMT
can i just say also, i really appreciate how kind and respectful everyone in this thread has been so far, even when we have differing opinions on these topics! i think with stuff like positive vs negative representation in media, everyone's going to have a different perspective on what comes off as relatable to them, and what feels more tokenizing or out of touch. no interpretation is inherently invalid, and that's kind of why i love hearing from people who disagree with me on how something came off to them! it's really interesting to hear other people's perspectives on stuff like this and makes me feel like i can see things in a new light ^w^ It's very refreshing! Like I said It's an important topic for me but I'm aware of how sensitive It can be for others sometimes. I came in fully aware that some might disagree with my takes or vice versa, especially considering how much there is up for interpretation. I always wanted to talk more about It but the broader internet is not very kind to disabled people. If the OSC didn't scare me so much I would be sitting down and making an essay on Charlotte alone LOL! |
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Post by CD on Apr 15, 2024 22:01:37 GMT
oh also on the topic of OCD rep, curious to hear if anyone else thought black hole's plot line in the most recent tpot ep felt very ocd-esque. i thought exploring intrusive thoughts in a Literal Nightmare like that was so interesting, and i really liked the conclusion with him deciding to focus not on preventing death, but on promoting life :') I wish you could've heard how viscerally I reacted to this reply. YES!!! I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR A WHILE More directly I had the idea that Black Hole could have thanatophobia in a way that conflicts/worsens with his OCD. He's such a Moral Scrupulosity character to me. I mean how else would you explain his obsession with something that seems more or less inconsequential to most characters? And the conclusion after confronting his obsession in the form of a nightmare also reminds me that avoidance, in the long run, just worsens things so much more. There was definitely a lot more build up to that than I'm saying here but It lines up with the OCD experience quite well. |
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Post by viscera zombie on Apr 15, 2024 22:14:47 GMT
oh also on the topic of OCD rep, curious to hear if anyone else thought black hole's plot line in the most recent tpot ep felt very ocd-esque. i thought exploring intrusive thoughts in a Literal Nightmare like that was so interesting, and i really liked the conclusion with him deciding to focus not on preventing death, but on promoting life :') ohhhh, this is actually SUCH a cool interpretation of his nightmare. looking back on it, i totally see what you mean. especially seeing how throughout all of TPOT his desire to prevent death feels more like a compulsive behavior. no wonder he cant set it aside even if it could help his teammates because in his mind, if someone dies (despite the recovery center existing), something bad will happen, and he's a bad person for it. maybe not something intentional by the writers, but definitely feels similar to OCD symptoms. |
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Post by treasuredguardian on Apr 16, 2024 6:13:02 GMT
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh boy. Where do I even start? While I have stopped watching III after a certain point, I did hear about the incident about that on episode and how the Key 3(and to an extent, certain staff members) handled it. I know it wasn't intentional, but the approach to the criticism seems to have done more harm than good, and I can't blame the disabled OSC members for being hurt from it.
It does confirm some of my concerns I've had with this community for a long time... I don't have Twitter(and don't plan to), so I'm not particularly sure if something good was made out of it. From what I can gather, probably not? The OSC having tight connections among various groups makes it incredibly difficult to get things across, and it's incredibly easy to get outcasted as a result.
That being said, while I am very passionate about how physical and mental disabilities are handled both in and out of object shows... I'm not too big on II(I enjoy it despite its flaws, it's just not something I dedicate much time to).
I will say this: One thing that's bothered me about certain characters with psychosis is how it hinges more on the "scarrrry hallucinations" than the other aspects that make having it hell to deal with. The one character that DOES display other aspects ending up being poorly utilized in the story in the sense that you don't know what that character was like before shit got bad. (so the inverse of the issue I have with Suitcase, but I digress) As the character was introduced during a time where the creator was much younger and didn't have his story planned, I think it's a lost cause to say much will improve from there. I do think there is some progress made, but we could do better and learn from it... You know?
(for clarification, I am mentally ill, but I'd rather not go on the specifics ;; ) |
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Post by cam on Apr 17, 2024 21:11:38 GMT
disability in object shows is great if done well, which I think is why I don't usually give any disabilities to characters I make, because I'm scared I would fuck it up badly. I bet if I spent like, days of research I could do it fine but I just don't feel like it a lot of the time, it sucks :(
the only real like, disability I could write would be ADHD, because I have it and know what mine was like (I was an annoying brat with good intentions)
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Post by CD on Apr 17, 2024 21:55:45 GMT
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh boy. Where do I even start? While I have stopped watching III after a certain point, I did hear about the incident about that on episode and how the Key 3(and to an extent, certain staff members) handled it. I know it wasn't intentional, but the approach to the criticism seems to have done more harm than good, and I can't blame the disabled OSC members for being hurt from it.
It does confirm some of my concerns I've had with this community for a long time... I don't have Twitter(and don't plan to), so I'm not particularly sure if something good was made out of it. From what I can gather, probably not? The OSC having tight connections among various groups makes it incredibly difficult to get things across, and it's incredibly easy to get outcasted as a result.
That being said, while I am very passionate about how physical and mental disabilities are handled both in and out of object shows... I'm not too big on II(I enjoy it despite its flaws, it's just not something I dedicate much time to). Shaking hands. From my little use of Twitter I can definitely confirm It comes off as such too. As leon (exit) mentioned in an earlier reply, It got to a point where someone got blocked by Adam Katz for pointing out that Tissues character may or may not have been based on a real person. It sucks to hear that so much discourse irt disabled characters came out of II x_x It doesn't make me feel any warmer towards the show. |
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Post by CD on Apr 17, 2024 22:09:22 GMT
disability in object shows is great if done well, which I think is why I don't usually give any disabilities to characters I make, because I'm scared I would fuck it up badly. I bet if I spent like, days of research I could do it fine but I just don't feel like it a lot of the time, it sucks :( the only real like, disability I could write would be ADHD, because I have it and know what mine was like (I was an annoying brat with good intentions) Don't get me wrong I understand that writing disabled characters can be a bit of a touchy subject, especially when you don't wanna step on anyone's toes but I don't think this mindset is particularily a healthy one to have. There is already a high lack in well intentioned disabled characters - I rather have someone with good intentions mess up on the way and then improve on the way than to completely exclude us. I can't force you to write disabled charactes nor do I want to, but I do want you (and everyone else who has the same worry) to know that most people will be able to take it in good enough faith to let you know when you mess up. There is a lot of bad faith readers out there but that's as expected with everything. We can't have a conversation on how to improve disability rep If there isn't anything to work with. I'm also not trying to be rude but pointing out that you "don't feel like doing research a lot of time" when It comes to writing/creating disabled characters feels rather careless and kind of hurtful in a thread specifically focused on how to handle writing disability. |
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Post by cam on Apr 18, 2024 2:58:34 GMT
disability in object shows is great if done well, which I think is why I don't usually give any disabilities to characters I make, because I'm scared I would fuck it up badly. I bet if I spent like, days of research I could do it fine but I just don't feel like it a lot of the time, it sucks :( the only real like, disability I could write would be ADHD, because I have it and know what mine was like (I was an annoying brat with good intentions) Don't get me wrong I understand that writing disabled characters can be a bit of a touchy subject, especially when you don't wanna step on anyone's toes but I don't think this mindset is particularily a healthy one to have. There is already a high lack in well intentioned disabled characters - I rather have someone with good intentions mess up on the way and then improve on the way than to completely exclude us. I can't force you to write disabled charactes nor do I want to, but I do want you (and everyone else who has the same worry) to know that most people will be able to take it in good enough faith to let you know when you mess up. There is a lot of bad faith readers out there but that's as expected with everything. We can't have a conversation on how to improve disability rep If there isn't anything to work with. I'm also not trying to be rude but pointing out that you "don't feel like doing research a lot of time" when It comes to writing/creating disabled characters feels rather careless and kind of hurtful in a thread specifically focused on how to handle writing disability. sorry should i just remove that i wasn't trying to be hurtful :( |
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Post by CD on Apr 18, 2024 12:54:23 GMT
Don't get me wrong I understand that writing disabled characters can be a bit of a touchy subject, especially when you don't wanna step on anyone's toes but I don't think this mindset is particularily a healthy one to have. There is already a high lack in well intentioned disabled characters - I rather have someone with good intentions mess up on the way and then improve on the way than to completely exclude us. I can't force you to write disabled charactes nor do I want to, but I do want you (and everyone else who has the same worry) to know that most people will be able to take it in good enough faith to let you know when you mess up. There is a lot of bad faith readers out there but that's as expected with everything. We can't have a conversation on how to improve disability rep If there isn't anything to work with. I'm also not trying to be rude but pointing out that you "don't feel like doing research a lot of time" when It comes to writing/creating disabled characters feels rather careless and kind of hurtful in a thread specifically focused on how to handle writing disability. sorry should i just remove that i wasn't trying to be hurtful :( I know that wasn't your intention I'm just letting you know how It comes off. You don't have to delete you reply, I'm just hoping you can take my advice to heart. The last thing I want is people to get scared away from writing disabled characters instead of noting criticism as something helpful. |
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