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Post by Exit on Jul 22, 2024 22:26:04 GMT
I had a realization fairly relevant to this topic today. At one of the Los Angeles meetups' Q&A sessions, Brian Koch confirmed that Silver Spoon has a romantic attraction to Candle, seen in this video. Another account of this sessions corroborates this, and adds that Silver Spoon/Candle content may appear in Silver Spoon's upcoming Exit Interview. Fan/Test Tube and Suitcase/Balloon are mentioned to have come up and been responded to affirmatively; the account does not specify that this affirmation was "canonization," however (this is irrelevant to Fan/Test Tube specifically, as Brian has already confirmed the pairing's canonicity via Twitter). The account mentions that Paper/OJ was also brought up, but was "unconfirmed," with the upcoming finale episode of Inanimate Insanity II alluded to re: it.
I find Brian's selective decision of what to directly affirm interesting. These are all heterosexual pairings. In 2018, Taylor Grodin stated via Tumblr that no Inanimate Insanity characters were ever intended to have or be given canon romantic/sexual orientations, citing in his rationale the fact that this would not be important to the series' content. Consequently, a brief history of AnimationEpic avoiding "canonizing" any romantic implications at all (Salt's attraction to OJ appears to be grandfathered in) followed. This is obviously a policy that Brian has chosen to walk back recently, as a concept of orientation is clearly inherently related to romantic attraction/relationships; why give the old, deliberately vague "you'll have to wait and see" answer to the only gay pairing brought up when you clearly have no problem with being direct about straight ones, though? To clarify, I don't think Brian sits there plotting to make any deliberately homophobic decisions, but I do think his clear enthusiasm for even very new straight pairings (like Silver Spoon/Candle) when suggested by fans as opposed to his old, protocol-type response to much older gay ones (like Paper/OJ) is revealing of his concern for gay representation in general. I know that Justin Chapman has expressed a personal enjoyment of both Paper/OJ and Marshmallow/Apple in the past, and am a bit curious as to why he seems to stick to the old policy outlined by Taylor in expressing only a personal enjoyment when his equal has openly given it up. To be brief and direct: It's curious that Brian jumps at the chance to confirm and/or affirm straight ships so often, then gives the one gay ship suggested to him (one that would have no negative, if any, bearing on the ongoing story) the "we'll see" treatment. Edit: After I wrote this post, this video was posted to Twitter, showing that Justin is the one who delivered the statement about Payjay. Brian did not speak up. I think my comments about their clear preferences and individual choices as directors still stand, though. |
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viscera zombie
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Post by viscera zombie on Jul 22, 2024 22:32:07 GMT
I don't have much to add onto the lesbian convo since I don't have that exact experience but It's really unfortunate to hear how people treat lesbian characters and creators. On that note though, one of my friends also saw PuppyRelp's video and talked with me about it. And I don't think I would ever fully watch it for my own wellbeing LOL. Seeing shows like EEE, Level Up and Object Terror be in D and E tier but II and TNM In A and B respectfully are some of the most "I just follow what others say/what's popular" opinions I've seen. Say about those first three shows what you want but 1. They're all made by openly queer (and in some cases trans) people 2. Have openly queer characters in it. Broomer and Chalky kiss on screen and are dating. Beer and Trowel kiss on screen, even If It was kind of unserious they're still very much gay. Pridey leans a bit into stereotypes (as do all of the characters) but he's still a character outside of that and not a completely unrealistic one. I know gay men like him, I *am* an effeminate gay man and I enjoy him a lot. Especially knowing It was made by a queer trans woman I highly doubt it was meant to be offensive. The controversy was aggravating but the osc will never learn to not scrutinize trans women for absolutely nothingburger things. And then claiming the show made by cis and mostly het guys that called their trans character an "it" and let their new trans character not have a personality out of being trans is better than the former examples? Yeah man sure. Tell me how The Nightly Manor's "gay" "rep" is anything to talk about. Also random twitter pride posts not only don't mean much but they're absolutely not better than gay characters Literally Kissing On Screen. Such an insanely biased video. while i personally said i don't want to disregard their opinions, i can definitely agree. i haven't seen Level Up or Object Terror but i HAVE seen Excellent Entities. the point about Broomer and Chalky being "heteronormative" threw me off slightly. if i recall correctly, WebzForevs is a queer man. it felt very accusatory since this is an argument i see brought up in arguments surrounding "fujoshis" and stereotypes of gay male relationships. some people seem to want to willingly ignore a creator's queer identity if it means they get into rip into gay characters they dont personally relate to and while i dont think thats what PuppyRelp was trying to do, its still odd to rank it lower than the decent-at-best but mostly mediocre representation of II. |
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treasuredguardian
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Post by treasuredguardian on Jul 22, 2024 22:37:19 GMT
Yeah, it really unnerves me whether people put down rep made by queer people but praise the rep made by people who aren't queer. I don't think PuppyRelp was trying to be malicious or anything, but this behavior does feel concerning. ;;;
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Post by Pony on Jul 23, 2024 0:17:21 GMT
To be brief and direct: It's curious that Brian jumps at the chance to confirm and/or affirm straight ships so often, then gives the one gay ship suggested to him (one that would have no negative, if any, bearing on the ongoing story) the "we'll see" treatment.
I'm Gonna Be a Liiiiittle Off Topic and Say Brian Koch's Behavior in General I Find Disconcerting. He's Kind of the Final ii Writer Actively Engaging With Fans and I Don't Like How He Behaves! He's Done Things Like Cuss Out Non-American Younger Fans for Being Ok With Leaks, and Stuff Like That and This and Disproving Ships That are Gay and Snipping at People Unhappy Ships They Dislike Are Canon Now Feels Weird... I Don't Think This is Appropriate Behavior for a 26 Year Old Man Who Commands a Great Deal of Respect Having Worked on the Second Largest Show in the OSC |
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objectirl
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Post by objectirl on Jul 23, 2024 6:00:53 GMT
also when you said smth regarding queer rep being comfirmed outside of source? agreeable as well. this is sadly a common thing within the osc and queer identities (especially sexualities) are often developed only when romance is involved. ofc im not saying im against queer romance (or romance in general) being represented, if anything, this is a good thing! although, you can still write queer chars WITHOUT romance and it wont hurt to try. another thing: in terms of presenting implications of queerness within the show, no matter how well written, there will still be people who deny it unless a character says "i am ____" on screen, which they believe is more believable. they prefer a more direct source that confirms their identity. its sad honestly, this sorta stuff doesnt just apply to the osc but other media in general :[ for sure, queer romance is a good thing! well-written romance plots can be really engaging too! but as an aromantic person, i'd love to see more rep without romance involved. i think my main thing is just wanting to see a wider array of queer experiences in general. trying to shove all people of a certain identity into a specific box, either to fit a stereotype or reject it, is completely antithetical to what being queer even is, to me at least. i'd be fine with the mean and evil lesbian characters (as i said, i have several characters who fit the trope) IF there was more diversity. im sure the same can be said for characters of all sorts of identities. and on top of this, i want more aromantic lesbian rep, more asexual lesbian rep, more trans lesbian rep- i want nice lesbians and femmes and butches and older lesbians and shy lesbians, i just get so sick of seeing the same thing over and over again, and i want more!
when it comes to representation, we often try to focus on what makes representation "good". but i think its more productive in the long run to have representation that's diverse. we all have different experiences with not just our sexuality but with life as a whole. and we already live in a world where cis and straight is the default until you announce it to the whole world that you're not. likely (no, definitely) a contributing factor in why some people will deny queerness until its said out loud with specific terminology. when i say sapphic representation needs improvement, i dont think we should push out the mean lesbian characters, i just think we should introduce more lesbian characters from all walks of life. that goes for media even outside of the OSC, though i see this stereotype more often in it. i dont want sapphic rep that's "good", i just want the wider OSC to acknowledge this prevalent lesbiphobia and work towards improving it!
Agree w/ all of this! |
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Post by Exit on Jul 30, 2024 2:39:24 GMT
On that note though, one of my friends also saw PuppyRelp's video and talked with me about it. And I don't think I would ever fully watch it for my own wellbeing LOL. Seeing shows like EEE, Level Up and Object Terror be in D and E tier but II and TNM In A and B respectfully are some of the most "I just follow what others say/what's popular" opinions I've seen. Say about those first three shows what you want but 1. They're all made by openly queer (and in some cases trans) people 2. Have openly queer characters in it. Broomer and Chalky kiss on screen and are dating. Beer and Trowel kiss on screen, even If It was kind of unserious they're still very much gay. Pridey leans a bit into stereotypes (as do all of the characters) but he's still a character outside of that and not a completely unrealistic one. I know gay men like him, I *am* an effeminate gay man and I enjoy him a lot. Especially knowing It was made by a queer trans woman I highly doubt it was meant to be offensive. The controversy was aggravating but the osc will never learn to not scrutinize trans women for absolutely nothingburger things. And then claiming the show made by cis and mostly het guys that called their trans character an "it" and let their new trans character not have a personality out of being trans is better than the former examples? Yeah man sure. Tell me how The Nightly Manor's "gay" "rep" is anything to talk about. Also random twitter pride posts not only don't mean much but they're absolutely not better than gay characters Literally Kissing On Screen. Such an insanely biased video. I thought that I might check out the video in question, but was immediately turned away by the fact that the description mentions that guests from the production of some shows were brought on, but not others; relevant to what you've just mentioned, Inanimate Insanity voice actress Jazzy Oliver is brought on to discuss II, but there is no equivalent "source" provided to Excellent Entities. Cherrypicking a trans voice actress (who barely has, and especially had, anything to do with the writing of II), a show that is presently somewhat divisive re: LGBT+ topics, then neglecting to even attempt to reach out to the trans creator of Excellent Entities renders this so blatantly free public relations work for II that I was dissuaded from giving it any of my time. |
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viscera zombie
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its all about the he-said, she-said bullshit >_>...
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Post by viscera zombie on Jul 30, 2024 2:55:34 GMT
On that note though, one of my friends also saw PuppyRelp's video and talked with me about it. And I don't think I would ever fully watch it for my own wellbeing LOL. Seeing shows like EEE, Level Up and Object Terror be in D and E tier but II and TNM In A and B respectfully are some of the most "I just follow what others say/what's popular" opinions I've seen. Say about those first three shows what you want but 1. They're all made by openly queer (and in some cases trans) people 2. Have openly queer characters in it. Broomer and Chalky kiss on screen and are dating. Beer and Trowel kiss on screen, even If It was kind of unserious they're still very much gay. Pridey leans a bit into stereotypes (as do all of the characters) but he's still a character outside of that and not a completely unrealistic one. I know gay men like him, I *am* an effeminate gay man and I enjoy him a lot. Especially knowing It was made by a queer trans woman I highly doubt it was meant to be offensive. The controversy was aggravating but the osc will never learn to not scrutinize trans women for absolutely nothingburger things. And then claiming the show made by cis and mostly het guys that called their trans character an "it" and let their new trans character not have a personality out of being trans is better than the former examples? Yeah man sure. Tell me how The Nightly Manor's "gay" "rep" is anything to talk about. Also random twitter pride posts not only don't mean much but they're absolutely not better than gay characters Literally Kissing On Screen. Such an insanely biased video. I thought that I might check out the video in question, but was immediately turned away by the fact that the description mentions that guests from the production of some shows were brought on, but not others; relevant to what you've just mentioned, Inanimate Insanity voice actress Jazzy Oliver is brought on to discuss II, but there is no equivalent "source" provided to Excellent Entities. Cherrypicking a trans voice actress (who barely has, and especially had, anything to do with the writing of II), a show that is presently somewhat divisive re: LGBT+ topics, then neglecting to even attempt to reach out to the trans creator of Excellent Entities renders this so blatantly free public relations work for II that I was dissuaded from giving it any of my time. yeah, i thought that was weird too. like, i dont see why only a few people got interviewed - and why only one was the actual creator of the show and the other was a voice actress. thats not to say Jazzy's input as a trans person is completely invalid, as ive said several times in this thread every queer person has different experiences that can give us drastically different opinions of the way queer characters are handled in media from each other, and their input is absolutely worth hearing. and well, PuppyRelp themself is also trans, so im not gonna say they arent allowed to identify with Paintbrush or Bot even despite II's shaky reputation with handling queer characters. but i think if youre gonna go ahead with interviewing queer cast and creators and asking their perspectives on how queerness is handled in object shows, you gotta commit to it. choosing not to get different perspectives and only interview a couple of people involved with shows you already think very highly of serves itself as very nitpicky and makes it appear like they dont actually want to delve into this topic or have a meaningful conversation, and instead just want to make a highlight reel of the queer rep they personally think is good. in that case, make a highlight reel, not a video essay claiming to actually discuss the topic. |
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mintykiwi
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Post by mintykiwi on Aug 1, 2024 12:49:41 GMT
i like excellent entities i don't have any further commentary i love lesbian divorce
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Post by CD on Aug 3, 2024 18:22:15 GMT
I thought that I might check out the video in question, but was immediately turned away by the fact that the description mentions that guests from the production of some shows were brought on, but not others; relevant to what you've just mentioned, Inanimate Insanity voice actress Jazzy Oliver is brought on to discuss II, but there is no equivalent "source" provided to Excellent Entities. Cherrypicking a trans voice actress (who barely has, and especially had, anything to do with the writing of II), a show that is presently somewhat divisive re: LGBT+ topics, then neglecting to even attempt to reach out to the trans creator of Excellent Entities renders this so blatantly free public relations work for II that I was dissuaded from giving it any of my time. Thank you for mentioning! There's no way the video isn't biased to what they personally prefer, which is unfortunate because I found the topic interesting... Ah well. |
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