mintykiwi
Debuter
watching boto (PEAR WAS ROBBED </3)
Posts: 104
Pronouns: yes
Mini-Profile Name Color: FFFFFF
Mini-Profile Text Color: FFFFFF
|
Post by mintykiwi on Sept 1, 2024 0:55:46 GMT
i recently started giving all my characters eyelashes regardless of gender bc i just like eyelashes. peace and love on planet earth yay i hsould do this too <3 |
|
natus
Debuter
mlp squee
Posts: 155
Pronouns: he/xe/it
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://i.ibb.co/qgXz905/muuuh.png","color":"#2B244D"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 44EE8C
Mini-Profile Text Color: 660C0E
|
Post by natus on Sept 1, 2024 16:12:51 GMT
I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS A WHILE AGO!!! As someone who like drawing eyelashes on characters, using eyelashes as a binary gender marker is annoying. Especially if it doesn't even fit the characters involved. Even then, I feel it would be more fair if they gave it to male or nonbinary characters if they don't use it as a marker but include them anyway (love PPT2, a shame that we have confirmation that none of the male characters are getting eyelashes. I can name 3 who at least fit). Also yeah, I have to admit that the eyelashes used tend to not gel well with the shape of the eyes. I can only remember one show off the top of my head that does give a male object show character eyelashes... I can't remember the title though. >_< EDIT: IT WAS OBJECT LEGENDS!!! NODDING i remember when they made the PPT2ers have a lil variety with the eyelashes but still such a shame none of the male contestants got any, cool that theres a show that does that tho!!! very nice to see!!! ALSO hi object legends ive been meaning to watch that for a bit!!! looks really cute! |
|
treasuredguardian
Contestant
Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
Posts: 259
Pronouns: He/It/Void/Null/Pix/Vex/Byte/Blast/.EXE (see Bio for more neos)
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://file.garden/ZWd7PdszsWLb2cuQ/Scenes%20to%20Redraw/PPT2%20Scenes/PPT2%20Episode%20Scenes/PPT2%2013%20Living%20on%20the%20Edge/vlcsnap-2023-10-17-12h17m53s995.png","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
|
Post by treasuredguardian on Sept 1, 2024 17:54:35 GMT
NODDING i remember when they made the PPT2ers have a lil variety with the eyelashes but still such a shame none of the male contestants got any, cool that theres a show that does that tho!!! very nice to see!!! Yeah, Yellow made a post on Tumblr confirming none of them would get it. I might link the post eventually, just know it was posted on December of 2022. Disappointing, but not surprised. (shrug) |
|
|
|
Post by CD on Sept 22, 2024 16:41:25 GMT
Let me preface this by saying that I haven't been looking at object stuff as actively the past 2 months but I still get to see it here and there. So I have no clue If this is a widespread issue or me just seeing some bad cases.
But I kinda hate how people see more feminine voices as basically making the characters Women or Women lite.
PDA and One (especially One!) are the most recent and honestly *only* examples of this afaik. Both of these characters are genderless or have unconfirmed genders. But because their voices are more feminine than most of the cast everyone feels obligated to treat them as such. Same with One going by she/her, It doesn't matter. They are still genderless.
And for the record I'm totally fine with pushing masculinity or femininity and even going overboard with nonbinary or genderless characters. I'm not asking for more gender neutrality.
I'm not sure how to word this better, I think I'm just very GNC and kinda annoyed by the lack of variety. BFDI does such a good job at letting characters just have whatever voice they're given and not making it a "girl or boy" thing (minus literally just one joke about GB's voice in BFDI) and I wish the fanbase did the same.
That also reminds me of a tweet I saw that was like "it's refreshing to see more AFAB voice actors in object shows" and It baffled me that no one pointed out the blatant transphobia in that wording. Very tactless.
|
|
|
|
Post by Exit on Sept 22, 2024 17:41:56 GMT
I'm not sure how to word this better, I think I'm just very GNC and kinda annoyed by the lack of variety. BFDI does such a good job at letting characters just have whatever voice they're given and not making it a "girl or boy" thing (minus literally just one joke about GB's voice in BFDI) and I wish the fanbase did the same. I agree with your whole post, but this part sticks out to me as particularly noteworthy because it feels like an active regression from how the BFDI fandom used to be. There were some "this character sounds like a boy/girl!" comments thrown around before from object show fans, but they usually weren't given a lot of weight, probably because they were just random thoughts popping into the heads of kids who didn't think about them in any significant depth. A lot of the strange "gendering" practices seen in the OSC now seem to be poor attempts to be progressive, especially when shipping (and consequently, identity) is involved, which means they're a lot more purposeful, and are coming from people who should probably know better. |
|
treasuredguardian
Contestant
Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
Posts: 259
Pronouns: He/It/Void/Null/Pix/Vex/Byte/Blast/.EXE (see Bio for more neos)
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://file.garden/ZWd7PdszsWLb2cuQ/Scenes%20to%20Redraw/PPT2%20Scenes/PPT2%20Episode%20Scenes/PPT2%2013%20Living%20on%20the%20Edge/vlcsnap-2023-10-17-12h17m53s995.png","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
|
Post by treasuredguardian on Sept 22, 2024 17:49:04 GMT
Is it a regression? That does sound concerning, but I don't want to generalize here. It's possible it could just be a vocal subset of people. Then again, with the OSC getting new blood there's always those people. I don't want to jump into conclusions because maybe the people saying it don't know any better. Especially knowing what the main demographic is. That said, I do recall some people being weird in regards to someone else's voice, but I don't want to say who that is.
|
|
|
|
Post by CD on Sept 22, 2024 18:13:13 GMT
I agree with your whole post, but this part sticks out to me as particularly noteworthy because it feels like an active regression from how the BFDI fandom used to be. There were some "this character sounds like a boy/girl!" comments thrown around before from object show fans, but they usually weren't given a lot of weight, probably because they were just random thoughts popping into the heads of kids who didn't think about them in any significant depth. A lot of the strange "gendering" practices seen in the OSC now seem to be poor attempts to be progressive, especially when shipping (and consequently, identity) is involved, which means they're a lot more purposeful, and are coming from people who should probably know better. That last part is exactly what I was thinking. It's one thing when people are young or uneducated but seeing other queer people and especially trans people revert back to basic gender conformity but in a Progressive coat this time It makes my head ache. |
|
treasuredguardian
Contestant
Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
Posts: 259
Pronouns: He/It/Void/Null/Pix/Vex/Byte/Blast/.EXE (see Bio for more neos)
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://file.garden/ZWd7PdszsWLb2cuQ/Scenes%20to%20Redraw/PPT2%20Scenes/PPT2%20Episode%20Scenes/PPT2%2013%20Living%20on%20the%20Edge/vlcsnap-2023-10-17-12h17m53s995.png","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
|
Post by treasuredguardian on Sept 22, 2024 18:17:13 GMT
If it really is as severe as you two claim... Has anyone tried speaking out about it? I know a couple of the creators has qualms about how people percieve voices in object shows, but that's about it. It could be queer people having internalized stuff they need to work on. Peer pressure is also a thing. Not sure how to go about it. This isn't directed at any of you, but I really do not want to make the OSC more hostile than it already is. We've seen how stuff like this is handled.
|
|
|
|
Post by Exit on Sept 22, 2024 19:03:34 GMT
If it really is as severe as you two claim... Has anyone tried speaking out about it? I know a couple of the creators has qualms about how people percieve voices in object shows, but that's about it. It could be queer people having internalized stuff they need to work on. Peer pressure is also a thing. Not sure how to go about it. This isn't directed at any of you, but I really do not want to make the OSC more hostile than it already is. We've seen how stuff like this is handled. Not to any effect, seemingly (and ironically) for the exact reasons you've listed. It's not easy to say much about what other people in the OSC do without having to put up with several days' worth of attacks. I know some forum members can attest to having tried and receiving interesting responses. It's not that I don't understand why reading that something one is presently doing is somehow wrong strikes a nerve (I don't think anybody is immune to that), but the scale and nature of rebuttals in the OSC generally exceeds any benefits that might come from speaking up about something.
I would consider it myself if this changed someday, but for now, it's generally not worth sticking your neck out in service of anything.
|
|
treasuredguardian
Contestant
Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
Posts: 259
Pronouns: He/It/Void/Null/Pix/Vex/Byte/Blast/.EXE (see Bio for more neos)
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://file.garden/ZWd7PdszsWLb2cuQ/Scenes%20to%20Redraw/PPT2%20Scenes/PPT2%20Episode%20Scenes/PPT2%2013%20Living%20on%20the%20Edge/vlcsnap-2023-10-17-12h17m53s995.png","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
|
Post by treasuredguardian on Sept 22, 2024 19:27:52 GMT
Not to any effect, seemingly (and ironically) for the exact reasons you've listed. It's not easy to say much about what other people in the OSC do without having to put up with several days' worth of attacks. I know some forum members can attest to having tried and receiving interesting responses. It's not that I don't understand why reading that something one is presently doing is somehow wrong strikes a nerve (I don't think anybody is immune to that), but the scale and nature of rebuttals in the OSC generally exceeds any benefits that might come from speaking up about something.
I would consider it myself if this changed someday, but for now, it's generally not worth sticking your neck out in service of anything.
I'm well aware. I know full well that the OSC has never been that great in regards to handling these situations... Which is why I'm at a loss on what to even suggest with situations such as these.... I would elaborate more but..... It's not a good idea to do so for the things you said. It's a problem, but with how the OSC is there's nothing we can really do about it. I don't want to be a downer but I know enough to know when something isn't really worth it. |
|
viscera zombie
Contestant
its all about the he-said, she-said bullshit >_>...
Posts: 230
Pronouns: it/its
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by viscera zombie on Sept 23, 2024 5:07:59 GMT
yknow im bad at really wording myself but in regards to the conversations above i, as someone whos nonbinary and leans more gender neutral, dont really see things like eyelashes or voices being used as gendered traits as like.. inherently regressive? however i can see why its viewed as such. because even if there isnt any malicious intent behind it, treating certain traits as Only Girl Things or Only Boy Things is still an issue. a little variety wouldn't hurt yknow? i don't think everything really has to be gender neutral, but i do think its worth examining why the fandom at large seems to automatically associate certain voices and physical traits as Girl Things and Boy Things and how object show creators might contribute to that by using these things as Only Girl Things and Only Boy Things. its been brought up several times on the forum by now that a lot of earlier object shows in particular have always been very loose with character voices, and characters' voices dont always match up with their gender/pronouns, so the fact that this fandom still seems to think of certain things as Girl Voices and Boy Voices is a little odd. all in all, its not like Evil or anything to make these stylistic choices, in my opinion, but i think we all benefit from a little self reflection. doing that is how i discovered that i preferred drawing eyelashes regardless of gender. i think the OSC could actually benefit a lot artistically as well as socially from letting ourselves have more variety in our designs in this way. anyways, not really sure if theres a solution to this that doesn't involve trying to fix the broader issue of this fandom's complete inability to handle even the tamest criticism towards their favorite shows, and at this point in time thats probably not possible lmao.
|
|
treasuredguardian
Contestant
Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
Posts: 259
Pronouns: He/It/Void/Null/Pix/Vex/Byte/Blast/.EXE (see Bio for more neos)
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://file.garden/ZWd7PdszsWLb2cuQ/Scenes%20to%20Redraw/PPT2%20Scenes/PPT2%20Episode%20Scenes/PPT2%2013%20Living%20on%20the%20Edge/vlcsnap-2023-10-17-12h17m53s995.png","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
|
Post by treasuredguardian on Sept 23, 2024 6:13:20 GMT
Yeah, I get what you mean. I draw eyelashes on a bunch of characters, it's just that the association with gendered traits combined with the lack of variety really bothers me. Eyelashes are technically gender neutral... I guess people gender it because of makeup???
Wouldn't be an issue if some people weren't.... Defensive about it. But yeah, if more people did self-reflection in this community it would be a lot more pleasant to be around.
|
|
|
|
Post by punchholery on Sept 23, 2024 14:30:12 GMT
Content farms. We can laugh at how dumb they look but hate watching will only give them more views. Anyway what's with the Osc giving these kinds of rage-baiting content attention? Trolls only use them as fodder.
Speaking of rage bait trolling, I'm not so active on twitter these days but there's an uptick of people also assuming that all OSC content are from the same show and it's considered as one huge content farm. Honestly, even back then I thought that II and BFDI were the same thing until I've noticed that they're different channels.
|
|
|
|
Post by CD on Sept 23, 2024 15:03:23 GMT
Don't have much to add onto what hasn't already been said but I can co-sign Exit getting a Lot of flack alongside other friends for genuine crticisms of popular shows and fandom behaviours. So I can't blame anyone for not bothering. Myself included for the most part. Sometimes I just need to rant about these things and this is the only place to do so (outside of friend groups) where I don't have to worry about uncontrolled flaming.
I try not to be too negative so good thing we have a thread dedicated to this LOL! Healthy amount of criticism and ranting and what-not. I disgress.
At the end of the day I can't and don't want to control what people draw or say about characters (unless it's blatant transphobia) but art reflects how you see yourself and others etc. And there's nothing inherently wrong with seeing a feminine voice and pronouns and thinking of Women automatically.
But It's specific cases like these where that's brought onto a series that's pretty open to deviating from gender norms or ditching those alongside just gender in general all together. Which is why It feels like a regression. At this point I'm just repeating myself though haha, just with slightly better wording.
TLDR: Unless people give us some variety I'm gonna side eye. LOL.
|
|
treasuredguardian
Contestant
Gaming in the Dark Pit of Despair
Posts: 259
Pronouns: He/It/Void/Null/Pix/Vex/Byte/Blast/.EXE (see Bio for more neos)
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://file.garden/ZWd7PdszsWLb2cuQ/Scenes%20to%20Redraw/PPT2%20Scenes/PPT2%20Episode%20Scenes/PPT2%2013%20Living%20on%20the%20Edge/vlcsnap-2023-10-17-12h17m53s995.png","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ffffff
Mini-Profile Text Color: ffffff
|
Post by treasuredguardian on Sept 23, 2024 16:04:18 GMT
Content farms. We can laugh at how dumb they look but hate watching will only give them more views. Anyway what's with the Osc giving these kinds of rage-baiting content attention? Trolls only use them as fodder. Huh??? I am so out of the loop here. I agree with what you have said. I can only guess it's because they really like making fun of really bad videos, because certain shows do get it too. I get that it can be funny sometimes but there are some instances where it's not worth giving attention. |
|
